How much are garages charging?

[dobbslc]

And without people buying new cars, the supply of 'cheap motoring' used ones would soon dry up and the prices would rocket

It's already happening.

I reckon half the "diesel car park" - at about 7 to 10yrs old has got the DPF/EGR/Adblue/NOX systems tampered with....

That's why it's no more modern die- sels for me!
1KZ-TE is all it needs to be

 

[charlysays]

It's already happening.

That's why it's no more modern die- sels for me!
1KZ-TE is all it needs to be
View attachment 528977

Same here. I've got a galvanized (chassis) 1978 reliant Scimitar fitted with a 2.9td om662 Merc diesel , 5 spd sprinter box. Still needs some fettling (mainly fitting a DMF to tone down the SMF vibes) but it's already a useable daily which runs on recycled chip fat. 6mm uprated inline Bosch pump means it's just getting going at 150hp- already more powerful than the Essex V6 it used to have. Zero electronics which can properly stop it running.

I will hold onto this car for as long as I can physically get into it and drive it.

My other car is a mercedes c250 TD which is a great car but rust is a constant battle and a complex electrical system too (for its time).

 

[m_c]

That drives me nuts. There's an international scientific language, so why automotive manufacturers all go their own way with names and terms is beyond me. Especially irritating if you're searching for some obscure little part as you have to run through guesses for what it, and what it's fixed to, might be called.

Even the same manufacturer can call the same thing different names.
Ford's classic is in diagnostics, you have the Suction Control Valve, in tech info it was the Inlet Metering Valve, and the in the parts catalogue it was a fuel control solenoid.

 

[m_c]

Some start at flywheel end some from crank pulley end.

That used to be easy.
Anything French started at the flywheel end, but then they started fitting French engines into non-French vehicles, and non-French engines in to French vehicles, and all hell broke lose.

Although you have to remember Ford's brief foray into numbering injectors according to firing order!

 

[dobbslc]

It's the fault of the French then!

 

[Cato]

It's the fault of the French then!

They do have some very strange habits, and not just in the automotive field.

 

[m_c]

They do have some very strange habits, and not just in the automotive field.

As the tutor summed up on a Renault Trucks course I done, there's the way everybody else does things, then there's the French way.
Renault truck engines are numbered the French way, but just to confuse you that bit more, they time them using cylinder 3.

And to check the valve clearances, you should remove the starter motor and turn the engine using a dummy pinion, as the front of the crank isn't exposed due to them using a geared output at the front for the belt pulley, which you can't use to the turn the engine over.
Off course, setting the valve clearances with the engine running is highly frowned up on

 

[Bobupndown]

Same here. I've got a galvanized (chassis) 1978 reliant Scimitar fitted with a 2.9td om662 Merc diesel , 5 spd sprinter box. Still needs some fettling (mainly fitting a DMF to tone down the SMF vibes) but it's already a useable daily which runs on recycled chip fat. 6mm uprated inline Bosch pump means it's just getting going at 150hp- already more powerful than the Essex V6 it used to have. Zero electronics which can properly stop it running.

I will hold onto this car for as long as I can physically get into it and drive it.

That sounds fantastic
Have you a thread on here about it?

 

[Cato]

As the tutor summed up on a Renault Trucks course I done, there's the way everybody else does things, then there's the French way.
Renault truck engines are numbered the French way, but just to confuse you that bit more, they time them using cylinder 3.

And to check the valve clearances, you should remove the starter motor and turn the engine using a dummy pinion, as the front of the crank isn't exposed due to them using a geared output at the front for the belt pulley, which you can't use to the turn the engine over.
Off course, setting the valve clearances with the engine running is highly frowned up on

I served my apprenticeship at a Renault/Dodge & ERF dealership when the R310 - R420 were quite new. Every wire on the Renault were black with a tag at each end, if you washed the valve springs when doing a head or engine job they were scrap.

Strange habits.

 

[addjunkie]

Off course, setting the valve clearances with the engine running is highly frowned up on

It can be done on a big old 2 stroke marine diesel, in an emergency, if you run it slow enough. Loosening and tightening the lock nut with the sledge hammer isn't fun, if your the one holding the spanner. The push rods were about 4 inch diameter.

 

[harveyp6]

I used to set the valve clearances on triumph 2000/2500 six pot engines with the engine running.
Easy.
When you get the hang of it.......

 

[addjunkie]

I used to set the valve clearances on triumph 2000/2500 six pot engines with the engine running.
Easy.
When you get the hang of it.......

Showing your age there, those things needed welding the day after they came out the factory!

 

[Red'n'Black]

I know - I know....

And all the while - you are charging the poor owner by the hour...

It is time consuming and expensive labour wise. If the punter is not willing to pay - you can see how they would agree to - encourage the "parts darts" game - in the vain attempt it fixes it.

But it is the deleted mapped out stuff - the punters are not aware of - that is the real killer. They buy a used car that runs OK - no MIL on - drives OK. Then it gets a another fault - and half the data is missing. And you got a car - with two expenisve faults to repair (the first one been hidden up by a previous owner).

I reckon half the "diesel car park" - at about 7 to 10yrs old has got the DPF/EGR/Adblue/NOX systems tampered with....

I've seen you mention this one before.

Presumably a main dealer would have a 'master copy' of the ECU software so it could be put back to factory settings?

But we're probably talking about the sort of basket-case car that's beyond economic repair at main dealer rates?

 

[Cobbler]

I used to set the valve clearances on triumph 2000/2500 six pot engines with the engine running.
Easy.
When you get the hang of it.......

That was the recommended way on Vauxhall’s on the Victor/CA Bedford engines from what I recall. We had a CA van & set them any other way & they never seemed to run right.

 

[Ubique]

Todays story from the trenches...

Entitled 'Cost versus value'...

2015 Range Rover Sport (L494) presented with EML illuminated and some mumblings about 'headlight' and 'brakes'...
Carried out DTC read, lots of missing messages set as 'U' codes, secondary battery voltage low & two glow plugs failed...
Replaced the secondary battery - voltage was too low for the tester to register it an it was the original so....
Checked the glow plugs - connector cable-tied together, resistances in spec at 0.9 Ohms, you can see from the photo the contacts are burnt, likely the receptacle is just as bad.

There's no real need for the connectors once the engine is fitted, so snipped them out and replaced with heat-shrink in-line splices.

On to the next, there are persistent DTC's for the right headlamp not responding, it's doing nothing, no lights at all, sees it's been unplugged(?) so plugs it in and the dash goes into 'disco light show' mode...
I've seen that before! Put my arm up between the NSF wheel arch liner & body, sure enough, the ground stud has corroded and come away.

Customer is called to advise what needs doing (hole drilled, alu. Rivnut fitting, reconnecting and a good spray of Dinitrol, 1hr max. Answer comes back 'Oh, I was told it needed a new body control module and a headlight, maybe an ABS block as well.... are you sure?'

Apparently this had been to a 'local garage' who diagnosed the above and said they'd 'have to get a man in' to programme it all in, quoted about £4k

So drill hole, clean paint off, fit rivnut

Reconnect ground connections

Good spray of Dinitrol, refit wheelardh liner, wheel, clear DTC's & test - all OK

Here's the parts replaced

Cost, with the secondary battery is around £380 inc vat, our hourly rate is about 35% above that of the 'local garage', I'd say we're good value.

 

[Ubique]

I've seen you mention this one before.

Presumably a main dealer would have a 'master copy' of the ECU software so it could be put back to factory settings?

But we're probably talking about the sort of basket-case car that's beyond economic repair at main dealer rates?

Not always, sometimes it needs a replacement module because the remappers set a ridiculously high SW version number, far in excess of what it could ever reach legitimately - we can't 'downgrade' software, mainly due to the Bosch 'dieselgate' issues.
When I was at a M-B dealer, there were a couple of recalls for engine control unit software, often you'd have to do a mandatory update to the transmission, powertrain & SCR modules as well - sometimes change the NOx sensors too.
Every driver was told the software would replace any unauthorised changes made to the ECM, were they happy to go ahead - some refused, but that number was far outweighed by the number that (presumably unknowingly) had various emissions control components 'mapped out'. The restorative work was never covered by goodwill or warranty, no matter how long or loud they complained, bills north of £2500 were not uncommon.

 

[premmington]

Not always, sometimes it needs a replacement module because the remappers set a ridiculously high SW version number, far in excess of what it could ever reach legitimately - we can't 'downgrade' software, mainly due to the Bosch 'dieselgate' issues.
When I was at a M-B dealer, there were a couple of recalls for engine control unit software, often you'd have to do a mandatory update to the transmission, powertrain & SCR modules as well - sometimes change the NOx sensors too.
Every driver was told the software would replace any unauthorised changes made to the ECM, were they happy to go ahead - some refused, but that number was far outweighed by the number that (presumably unknowingly) had various emissions control components 'mapped out'. The restorative work was never covered by goodwill or warranty, no matter how long or loud they complained, bills north of £2500 were not uncommon.

1. The reason the mappers go high with SW version number is so "there fix" don't get overwritten with updates.

2. I can hear it now - "Since you updated my ECM software my car's engine management light is on - it is is limp mode - the adblue counter is running down". You have broken my car...!

 

[harveyp6]

Showing your age there, those things needed welding the day after they came out the factory!

I sure am!
Actually, most needed welding before they left the factory....

 

[Ubique]

...- "Since you updated my ECM software my car's engine management light is on - it is is limp mode - the adblue counter is running down". You have broken my car...!

We didn't give them the chance - we proactively diagnosed the cause(s), worked up a quote and called them with the 'news'... They were, of course, welcome to take their car back 'as-is' or have it repaired elsewhere. Not all of these jobs came across my desk bench but a small proportion did take their cars away to be fixed elsewhere - probably by getting someone to map out the broken bits again.

 

[premmington]

We didn't give them the chance - we proactively diagnosed the cause(s), worked up a quote and called them with the 'news'... They were, of course, welcome to take their car back 'as-is' or have it repaired elsewhere. Not all of these jobs came across my desk bench but a small proportion did take their cars away to be fixed elsewhere - probably by getting someone to map out the broken bits again.

I took "the decision" around 2007/8 ish - I was not going to get involved with mapping and deleting. It was in its infancy then....

It may of cost me some money... But to be honest - I get out of bed in the mornings to fix things - not spend all day hiding faults.