How much are garages charging?

[Robotstar5]

<snip>As a side note when I sent copies of my C&G certs I then had to explain in an email how they compared to NVQs.

Sounds similar to when I ordered a load of electrical stuff from Screwfix many years ago, lady behind the counter asked if I was an electrician and if I bought in proof of quals I could get an Electrifix account so I took them in, she skimmed past my certificate of craftsmanship, various C&G certs and technicians certs not knowing what they were until she got to the 17th edition cert (which anyone can get) and said "that's fine, you can open an account"

 

[Cato]

The halfwit you refer to had replace brake components - they were different side-to-side, but it was a corroded bracket (spring hanger IIRC) that initiated the event.

Man in modified Land Rover caused deaths of his four children

The patched-up Land Rover which plunged in to a river in a crash that killed four young children was the worst-maintained vehicle ever seen by officers in the case.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

A lot of people deride dealer technicians, you can be sure though that they have been trained, tested and accredited to work on vehicles, the dealers insurers or the manufacturer they represent will not allow it any other way. Yes, mistakes will happen - as they will at an indie or 'fred in a shed' one-man-bands - which is why they have, or should have, the proper insurance in place.
I do believe that it's not too far down the line that anything related to braking, steering & suspension will become 'accredited repairer only' - similar to Gas-Safe. There's too many opportunities for corners to be cut, especially seeing some of the braking & suspension materials bought by eastern Europeans in ECP shops on a Sunday morning...

I'd forgotten the details, a sad outcome for all concerned.

As to your second point about accreditation, long overdue IMHO as no doubt like many others the stuff I've seen come into the workshop over the years is terrifying. A shame for those capable without being qualified, but they're a dying breed now. The modern way seems to be 10 minutes on YouTube and away you go.

 

[premmington]

I'd forgotten the details, a sad outcome for all concerned.

As to your second point about accreditation, long overdue IMHO as no doubt like many others the stuff I've seen come into the workshop over the years is terrifying. A shame for those capable without being qualified, but they're a dying breed now. The modern way seems to be 10 minutes on YouTube and away you go.

I been in the motortrade a very/very long while - there is very little accountability or trade training.

Anybody can open a garage and declare themselves "a professional" - even there insurers will insure them.

Hot water plumbers and gas engineers have to have the right qualifications to trade - So do sparkies... But motor mechanics don't.

Top tear dealership techs get manufacturer derived training.

Big chain fast fit garages - dish out in house qualifications for there staff and declare them "fully trained techs".

Basic level 3 C&G - is so out of date - it is unreal - it does not even come near what a mechinic/fitter/tech does in the real workplace on a daily basis (now they added level 4 for EV/Phevs).

And for the record: The DIY repairs I been privey to over the years don't look that bad as a rule - I seen worst jobs come out of other garages...

------

Whole industry could do with a shake up to be honest - what few attempts they have had is - has been organisations selling "paper" qualifications for monetary gain...

 

[Cato]

I been in the motortrade a very/very long while - there is very little accountability or trade training.

Anybody can open a garage and declare themselves "a professional" - even there insurers will insure them.

Hot water plumbers and gas engineers have to have the right qualifications to trade - So do sparkies... But motor mechanics don't.

Top tear dealership techs get manufacturer derived training.

Big chain fast fit garages - dish out in house qualifications for there staff and declare them "fully trained techs".

Basic level 3 C&G - is so out of date - it is unreal - it does not even come near what a mechinic/fitter/tech does in the real workplace on a daily basis (now they added level 4 for EV/Phevs).

And for the record: The DIY repairs I been privey to over the years don't look that bad as a rule - I seen worst jobs come out of other garages...

------

Whole industry could do with a shake up to be honest - what few attempts they have had is - has been organisations selling "paper" qualifications for monetary gain...

I started my apprenticeship in '83 and I can honestly say that most of the home repair stuff I've seen has ranged from OK to bloody dangerous. The more involved the work required is/was the worse the resulting repair.

That said when I was delivering technician training for JLR there were some I would class as no better TBH.

The old apprenticeship system with C&G qualifications, skills test etc was time consuming and expensive, but you had people who were actually qualified and capable at the end of it.

 

[Dapph2]

I remember the case of the Landy crash, I was just wondering if a home mechanic made some mods which a couple of owners later caused an accident, could they be held liable?.

Yes if they are traced and proven to have done the bad work. IE bills and bank payments , photo's etc.

Simply put HASAW 1974 now also covers non employment aspects of everything . The gist being you shall not by your acts or omissions endanger or cause injury to anyone . That covers every thign you have ever done in your life , it may seem over the top but when you look at the Grenfell Tower fire in an old corner cut building with poorly maintained systems and the incorrect insulation used etc etc . is a necessary thing to get those that caused the deaths or had a hand some how in the end result .

 

[Ubique]

I been in the motortrade a very/very long while - there is very little accountability or trade training.

Anybody can open a garage and declare themselves "a professional" - even there insurers will insure them.

Hot water plumbers and gas engineers have to have the right qualifications to trade - So do sparkies... But motor mechanics don't.

Top tear dealership techs get manufacturer derived training.

Big chain fast fit garages - dish out in house qualifications for there staff and declare them "fully trained techs".

Basic level 3 C&G - is so out of date - it is unreal - it does not even come near what a mechinic/fitter/tech does in the real workplace on a daily basis (now they added level 4 for EV/Phevs).

And for the record: The DIY repairs I been privey to over the years don't look that bad as a rule - I seen worst jobs come out of other garages...

------

Whole industry could do with a shake up to be honest - what few attempts they have had is - has been organisations selling "paper" qualifications for monetary gain...

I'd agree with that - although more & more brands are requiring tech's to achieve accreditation - mostly as a reaction to the replacement of actual training with Covid-era online training & testing, I have seen a lot of online tests 'assisted' by other tech's, some brands now require them to be done on a PC with a webcam to validate the result against an individuals image. Accreditation is carried out over a minimum of two days 'in person' for a service tech, going up to six months for a MT on some brands, total time for a VWG MT accreditation can be 12 months if coming from out of group.

All that training, and people still think we rely on these....

LR 2015 version pictured

All you need then is a 21 gun salute from the parts cannon....

 

[Keith 66]

I bought a new car today, Well the newest i have ever had, A 2013 toyota yaris, very low mileage for its year & more cost than i really wanted to pay but it was a case of trying to get something that would last a good few years. Lad at the dealers said "We cant get enough cars like this they sell like hot cakes", The more modern & electric vehicles are getting to be unrepairable by anyone except factory trained guys & the trend is accelerating.
My son works in the Ev development & testing field & the technology is getting way beyond what the average backyard guy can deal with. Huge Voltage & amperages & more & more complexity of electronics controlling it all.
I can see why old school mechanics cant wait to pack it in.

 

[keithski122]

Whole industry could do with a shake up to be honest - what few attempts they have had is - has been organisations selling "paper" qualifications for monetary gain...

I did my city and guilds in the late 8s/early 90's then a few years later went back to college for two years of evening classes two evenings a week to do my IMI qualifications. I did everything apart from my last assessment when I discovered that a manager with experience could have exactly the same qualifications as me with no need for the leaning, that and it would cost me £400 a year to keep the ability to use the qualifications.

 

[Beeezer]

Don’t most garages use these till it’s fixed, then send all the used/unused parts back to the supplier…

 

[james butler]

When I supply parts it's cost plus 10 - 15% depending on what it is. That's to cover warranty repairs as even if the part fails and I can return for a claim I've either got to strip at my cost to find out, or swallow the cost if it's too short a time involved to go through the ball ache of claiming.

i can understand that but the price charged isnt 10-15% more like 300%

 

[james butler]

Sounds like you need to go in the trade.....step up and be the low cost king !

funny you say that as the number of people now diy ing car repairs and servicing is booming here in the uk
lad i know works in halfords sells out regularly of drive on ramps, stands and cheap jacks
it might also explain why im seeing more oil stains on the floor of petrol forecourts etc somebody didnt change the sump seal
in this conversation i suppose it depends on your own perspective, if your the self employed boss of your own garage you can probably justify the costs, but when your the employee on minimum budget you can see why its hard to justify hundreds of pound per hour to any customer
this is why i do my own work and benefit from the huge cost savings as do many others as demonstrated across many forums

 

[m_c]

I been in the motortrade a very/very long while - there is very little accountability or trade training.

Anybody can open a garage and declare themselves "a professional" - even there insurers will insure them.

Hot water plumbers and gas engineers have to have the right qualifications to trade - So do sparkies... But motor mechanics don't.

Top tear dealership techs get manufacturer derived training.

Big chain fast fit garages - dish out in house qualifications for there staff and declare them "fully trained techs".

Basic level 3 C&G - is so out of date - it is unreal - it does not even come near what a mechinic/fitter/tech does in the real workplace on a daily basis (now they added level 4 for EV/Phevs).

And for the record: The DIY repairs I been privey to over the years don't look that bad as a rule - I seen worst jobs come out of other garages...

------

Whole industry could do with a shake up to be honest - what few attempts they have had is - has been organisations selling "paper" qualifications for monetary gain...

I've done a course with somebody who was involved in fast fit training, and it was quite eye opening.
Their 'techs' could only do repairs that they had been trained on, but the standard was quite shocking.
He was an ex-VW master tech, and one of them tried arguing with him over what size the brake caliper bolt was on the training workshops VW Golf, as it was 'rounded'. They had the wrong size spanner, but were adamant that wasn't the problem

I do agree that recognised qualifications should be required, but I'm sure that you're well aware of how much push back there is from the trade for anything mandatory, given it would remove a lot of so called 'mechanics' from the employment pool.

 

[Cato]

i can understand that but the price charged isnt 10-15% more like 300%

How so?

 

[james butler]

How so?

the total price charged is heavily overinflated for simple brake disk and pad change so a 10-15% charge on parts still doesnt warrent the rest of the cost in the example i gave so what is the charge for?
expertise? i doubt it, otherwise working for an employer in the motor trade wouldnt be so poorly paid. what is more likely is greed by garage/franchise owners cashing in while the goings good.
independants therefore can charge a little less but still charge an overinflated amount.
just because everyone is charging over and above doesnt make it right neither should it become standard practice
it is only my opinion but I'm am genuinely shocked what people are being asked to pay for work these days

 

[Cato]

the total price charged is heavily overinflated for simple brake disk and pad change so a 10-15% charge on parts still doesnt warrent the rest of the cost in the example i gave so what is the charge for?
expertise? i doubt it, otherwise working for an employer in the motor trade wouldnt be so poorly paid. what is more likely is greed by garage/franchise owners cashing in while the goings good.
independants therefore can charge a little less but still charge an overinflated amount.
just because everyone is charging over and above doesnt make it right neither should it become standard practice
it is only my opinion but I'm am genuinely shocked what people are being asked to pay for work these days

Oh I see, you mean the brakes price you were quoted. I thought you meant generally parts were getting bumped by 300%.

 

[bricol]

the total price charged is heavily overinflated for simple brake disk and pad change so a 10-15% charge on parts still doesnt warrent the rest of the cost in the example i gave so what is the charge for?
expertise? i doubt it, otherwise working for an employer in the motor trade wouldnt be so poorly paid. what is more likely is greed by garage/franchise owners cashing in while the goings good.
independants therefore can charge a little less but still charge an overinflated amount.
just because everyone is charging over and above doesnt make it right neither should it become standard practice
it is only my opinion but I'm am genuinely shocked what people are being asked to pay for work these days

Not sure you are comparing apples with apples. Cheapest of the cheap from ECP isn't the same as stuff from a more reputable manufacturer. Supposedly, the law requires a minimum standard for brake components, but words on cardboard boxes do not mean they do. I've been sold cheap crap in re-used brand name packaging - it went back rapidly!

 

[DanZac]

expertise? i doubt it, otherwise working for an employer in the motor trade wouldnt be so poorly paid. what is more likely is greed by garage/franchise owners cashing in while the goings good.

Training people to get that expertise is hugely expensive to any business. To send someone on a one day course you have to cover the cost of the course, plus their wages, plus the fact that their unproductive and thus not earning for your business for that day. In theory at least 2x wages plus the cost of the course for each day.

Add on all the hundreds of other overheads already mentioned and running any business becomes expensive and those costs have to be covered by the consumer.

 

[premmington]

the total price charged is heavily overinflated for simple brake disk and pad change so a 10-15% charge on parts still doesnt warrent the rest of the cost in the example i gave so what is the charge for?
expertise? i doubt it, otherwise working for an employer in the motor trade wouldnt be so poorly paid. what is more likely is greed by garage/franchise owners cashing in while the goings good.
independants therefore can charge a little less but still charge an overinflated amount.
just because everyone is charging over and above doesnt make it right neither should it become standard practice
it is only my opinion but I'm am genuinely shocked what people are being asked to pay for work these days

@james butler - This is gonna go down like a lead balloon - but here goes...!

And I will start it with - I think carers who look after old people should get more money.

I think my plumber is expensive - as I can do his job...

My dentist is expensive - but he saves me pain and I can't do his job - so as much as I don't like paying him - I think he is good value.

See if you have some idea how to do something - paying looks expensive - I get that...

All my life I have given one person a bill for a job and they reckon it is too expensive - give another the same bill for the same job - they happy to pay it and think it is fair - it is just if they are willing - happy to pay....

But here is big but - I am into my garage premises for over a million pounds in freehold building - yard - gear and equipment. I have invested decades of my time building up a business - I work 70/80hrs a week most weeks and I think my income stream should match or exceed the prime minister - I do - I actually think I am worth it.

I reckon if you can't fix your own car - I am good value....


And definatly better value than the current PM

 

[tom2207]

if the mechanics got a larger percentage of the hourly rate charged there would be no shortage of mechanics at all .... its that simple , for the training and knowledge required , mechanicing has to be the worst trade out there pay wise.

 

[premmington]

if the mechanics got a larger percentage of the hourly rate charged there would be no shortage of mechanics at all .... its that simple , for the training and knowledge required , mechanicing has to be the worst trade out there pay wise.

I agree 100% with everything you say.

I would not encourage anybody to go into this trade - if I had my time again - I would have been a builder and just built litttle rows of houses and bungalows...

But and this is big but.... If you want a bigger percentage of the charged hourly rate - you do have choice - you do - you can have all of it and open your own garage (that is what I did mate)

I not recommending this cource of action to anybody - you will be working two weeks in one - no holidays - no time off when you sick - you will have sold your soul to the punters...

The motortrade is just not a good trade to be in - whatever level you choose....