Absolutely this. It's not about driving through snowdrifts (in Scandinavia their winter tyres have metal studs in, including for bicycles!), but having far better grip and stopping distance in the wet and lower temperatures because of the compound. Summer tyres get hard in lower temperatures and are less good at shedding water. Equally winters will lower fuel economy and have worse grip in summer. I fit winter tyres in Cornwall, even on the Herald. It does get below 7 (hovering around zero right now) and it certainly gets wet. As the only parts in contact with the road, tyres are my most important purchase on the car, and keeping two sets isn't much of a hardship rather than 'all season' ones that aren't great at anything.
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Jelly_Sheffield
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The relatively narrow tyre fitment, and crucially the associated higher tyre-pressures on the 406 will have helped there too. My mate's Citroen C15 is remarkably able in the snow because of exactly that factor.
With snow/ice having such a low coefficient of friction compared to normal road surfaces, then the effective ground pressure of the vehicle, begins to predominate as the major factor dictating grip rather than the friction coefficient of the rubber in the tyres.
This is because to get grip you need to be doing work to melt the ice enough to either create an edge for the tread blocks to grab on, or (more normally in the UK) sink through to make contact the higher friction surface underneath...
The energy for that work is supplied by the car's gravitational potentially energy, and the ground pressure effectively determines the rate at which that energy can be applied to do useful work (for a given weight of vehicle).
This is also why studs work so well on ice, they create much higher but more localised pressures directly underneath them letting them melt into the ice surface with ease.
As a result the modern trend towards increasingly wide tyres running at lower pressures for improved ride quality at the optimal size of contact patch works against you when trying to cut through deep snow, or get grip on icy surfaces.
(This holds for "normal" vehicles for the most part, unless you go massively in the other direction and start talking about Icelandic 4x4's with balloon tyres... Where you're actually trying to have a big enough contact patch to maintain grip even with the extremely low coefficient of friction).
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northwest
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For a long while I fitted either Blizzaks or Quadraxers on my car, as noted above in someone's post I would happily zoom past BMW's or Merc's with 4WD as they were on summer slicks. Make a massive difference in snow or ice. In answer to the poster pondering whether or not you put decent "all season" or snow tyres on the two driven wheels and leaving Ditchfinders on the two undriven wheels the answer is dont! I was in heavy rain coming off a motorway onto a slip road when I applied the brakes with some gusto and the car tried to swap ends as the fronts dug in.
Ubique
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I have a set of winter tyres, Pirelli - cost me about £900 five years ago, they generally go on November to March but can be earlier and stay on later depending upon the weather. I reckon another one, maybe two seasons and I'll change them on age, they've currently got about 4.5mm on them
To me, good value for money - the 'summer' tyres are younger and cost about the same, so they're both wearing 'less' than all-year use, once you have two sets, they don't cost any more than one set to use.
Bobupndown
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Kumho HA32 All season are pretty good for the price.
Driven end isn't the problem. Tyres are.
My Dodge Challenger, silly bhp, silly torque RWD on the M&S tyres it had on was surprisingly good in several inches of snow with more falling, sufficient grip for me to happy to pass people crawling along, especially uphill.
I have been there in a RWD Alfa 75 in Sheffield with a collection of students in the boot bouncing.
What ever the number of driven wheels, your average four wheeled car still has only four wheels to brake.
However, amusing tale with my Alfa 159 Q4 saloon a few years ago, taking my mum for a COVID jab in heavy snow. I persuaded the stuck guy in front to give up if he'd let me past Id tow him up the steep hill.
Within a few yards I'd forgotten he was on the end of the strap until I heard a car horn . . .looked in the mirror and there's this small van all over the road on the end of my tow strap - his tyres had no control over his direction, even with no drive through them. I braked and then considered he had no grip . . .off the brakes and let the hill stop us.
Some interesting looks from people in the cars we had passed up the hill at that point .
That Alfa is for sale, complete with the spare set of winter tyre equipped wheels . . .
Winter tyres, unless studded, still have shi te grip on ice.
Driven in Finland on road studded tyres - still easy to over come the grip if you drive with suitable consideration.
Bobupndown
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Been driving in some pretty deep snow getting out of our lane and single track rural roads this last few days. The trusty Freelander 2 with its Michelin Latitude Cross tyres has been fantastic.
Mick Annick
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Interesting, I’ve had the same on my VW T-Roc for 18 months, they’re good in dry and wet conditions but have been no better than standard tyres in the snow - it snowed here on Christmas Day and the lanes have not been gritted or ploughed since - I can’t say they’re any better. They’ve also worn oddly - I’ve had a bad rumbling which I put down to a wheel bearing being on the way out. I took it to my garagiste (ex F1 suspension engineer) who took it for a spin and said no, it’s your tyres. We swapped the fronts to rear and sure enough the noise moved with them, closer inspection showed feathering on the shoulders. I’ve fixed it by turning up the radio.
Ubique
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Quite common on VW's - a mix of geometry and damper design based upon expected load, not helped by most people's tendency to inflate the tyres to 'high load' pressures and leave them there.
Mick Annick
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Mmm, guilty as charged
Depending on dept, its the law here to have all seasons tyres fitted in winter & carry snow chains or socks, but more mountainous and inland than Burgandy. New all season tyres come with little 3 peak mountains moulded in the sidewall to show they comply with the law of the mountains. I imagine the concequences of crashing without tyres marked thus in winter would be legally awkward... https://www.loimontagne.info/
All of our normal cars have the mountain logo tyres now because occasionally we might travel into regions affected, and the clio estate has cheapo socks alongside the yellow vest in its little cubbyhole in the boot, I think they cost about 5e in some cheap end of line shop, I dont ever expect to fit them but theyre there to tick a box...
Ubique
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My FL2 was also great in snow, I remember belting up the M40 'where the third lane should be' in fresh snow, it was rock solid - unlike the L200 that tried to follow me (he'd have done better straddling my ruts rather than driving in them!) Ran it on Pirelli AT/R's at the time, 30k+ down to 4mm
Jelly_Sheffield
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Not all the Scandinavians use studded tyres, but it's also one of the few topics that seems to get Finnish people vocally and openly disagreeing with each other.
Nokian offers some very soft tyre compounds with sharp mineral crystals embedded in the rubber, to massively increase the surface area and give acceptable levels of grip when driving on ice and compacted snow.
According to some of my Nordic colleagues with a lot of experience behind the wheel, studless are:
"The best for the slush we get by the coast, and better than studs on fresh snow we get in the north, until the road is that you should have brought your moottorikelkka* out instead'
Apparently studs are:
"Only really for country people and farmers living in the lake country, where it stays cold and the roads never get cleared so they must drive on sheet ice or refrozen snow for months"
*Snowmobile, I believe.
Pigeon_Droppings2
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I used to commute in an mr2 mk2 all year round...I think you do get the hang of it but I had a few brown trouser moments for sure where I was sideways! The mk2 rev1 was well known for snap handling.
All weather tyres make a big difference I find below 5C...they're just a lot more grippy.
Ubique
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A few years ago, we took some Land Rovers to Courchevelle - on the final approach the Police were stopping everything at the layby for fitting mandatory snow chains - we had I think, six UK registered vehicles in a stick, there was a Ford something-or-other that'd jumped in the middle, just in front of me... The Gendarme waved through the two Landies in front of him but directed him into the lay-by, I heard the 'but why did you wave them through? they didn't have snow chains?' the response was 'Monsieur, you 'ave to understand, zey arrrre Land Roverrrrz, snow chainnss weel not 'elp....
Anyway, gratuitous photo of Landies making best use of chains on the Crosiere Blanche, 2008 - before the greenies persuaded the Mayors to ban it.
Mick Annick
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We don’t need them in Côte d’Or, though there are many roads locally that have signs saying snow tyres / chains compulsory in winter. I fitted all-season tyres all round last time I changed them given it’s very rural where we live and many roads aren’t routinely cleared. I’ll put all-season tyres on again, though probably not Michelin.
This thread has reminded me - I still have the all season tyres off the 406.
I also have a spare set of rims for the golf the same size as the 406.
I think there will be a trip to a tyre depot to get the tyres fitted to the golf rims just in case we get a lot of snow.
Mind you I was impressed how good the golf is in the snow on standard tyres. Maybe its the auto gearbox and all the traction aid gizmos it has?
I also have a spare set of rims for the golf the same size as the 406.
I think there will be a trip to a tyre depot to get the tyres fitted to the golf rims just in case we get a lot of snow.
Mind you I was impressed how good the golf is in the snow on standard tyres. Maybe its the auto gearbox and all the traction aid gizmos it has?
Jelly_Sheffield
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How do you find the Latitude Cross performs in the mud and the loose?
I have been running Maxxis Bighorns on the truck because it was what I could get in a hurry, but rarely need something that aggressive, and on-road they're extremely loud with adequate but not great grip in the wet (although loads better than the BFG's they replaced).
There's not that many AT tyres that are rated much better than my current MT's for wet grip, but the Latitudes are supposedly are, so if they didn't sacrifice too much grip in the mud, might make it worth switching.
