The art of self employment

[8ob]

Not sure how @Robbie260 rolls, freelance engineering could be anything. Not too hard to establish a reasonable and profitable day rate if you are working out of a well kitted out van. Tot up vehicle/kit depreciation, insurances/ other fixed overheads and a sensible day rate, work out a per mile from base rate and establish a decent day/ hourly rate, make this transparent to those you work for and it should be plain sailing. Nothing taints a working relationship more than a surprise invoice.

Bob

 

[steveo3002]

how many hours worked per week vs how much wage would you like to see

example 40 hrs a week billed , you want to take 400 so increase the hourly rate by a tenner ?

 

[Robbie260]

If you are not making wages,how are you surviving?

How about deciding on how much you want to make per year,dividing it by how many days you want to work,then dividing that figure by how many hours in your work day. Add onto that figure your contributions and then add that figure onto your hourly rate.

You might loose some customers but the money isn't at the bottom of the barrel it's on the top.

Still live at home with the parents pay them some rent and expenses. Though I see that as a fixed cost.

 

[Robbie260]

Not sure how @Robbie260 rolls, freelance engineering could be anything. Not too hard to establish a reasonable and profitable day rate if you are working out of a well kitted out van. Tot up vehicle/kit depreciation, insurances/ other fixed overheads and a sensible day rate, work out a per mile from base rate and establish a decent day/ hourly rate, make this transparent to those you work for and it should be plain sailing. Nothing taints a working relationship more than a surprise invoice.

Bob

Crofts & Lochs Engineering and Contracting

Fort William and the Highlands and islands Mobile Mechanical Engineering Service

cl-ecr.com

Maybe this would help. But yes mainly working out a van.

Suspect part of my issue is I charge hourly rate for everything rather than pricing some jobs as a day etc or by book time if I know I can do them faster.

I’m admittedly crap at estimates.

 

[500e]

Break the job down int sections, looking at what is needed, removing casings, drain oil remove sump, etc give each item a time then you have a total of time dont cut the time you end up with if anything add a few hours you can always say to customer it took less time and they are happy add time and.
You soon get into the swing of doing it and then it becomes second nature, your OH are a fixed cost to inc travel time van depreciation + mileage fuel.
We were being paid hourly rate + 68p mile in 1990/2000 and before as a contractors to electronics Co.

 

[tom2207]

If you have a decent reputation the rates are not excessive ,,, but if your still at home and not making money its got to be time for a readjustment on either expectations or employment options.

 

[Dozzer]

Yeah that seems to ring true.



Thanks I think that’s maybe part of my problem I am because of my background training no specialist and I do probably try and cater to far to much at the moment. Kinda difficult due to location though so a little flexibility and juggling is required and a little too much competition in some areas for me to branch into to be worth the effort. Definitely something I need to work on.

I suppose at the moment the work you could say I specialise in is breakdown and emergency work, I do sometimes get booked out 3 weeks in advance like a lot of people here but I have generally tried to specialise in being available but that admittedly dosen't seem to be working so well. The wait to see any kind of mechanic for anything is 3-6 weeks up here, that’s, comercials, cars, plant, boats etc. though thankfully other than special tools for cars most of that all crosses over.

In the dim and distant past when i had my own workshop,
did mechanical work for local dealers that was more than their fitters wanted to do, like engine swaps, major body/chassis repair, basically anything other than standard service work.
i used to charge £80 a day, on their premises plus parts/materials.
If it was in my workshop it was £100 a day or £20ph on piddly work that was less than half a day, and that was 30 years ago!!

Plant should be £40-50hr now, Cars same and any HGV stuff should be £50 min. most are charging £70hr on HGV/PSV stuff.
IF you are not making a min of £100 a day, your working for very little.
Most customers are more than happy for you to carry on like that,
With things like boats, or anything that takes you away from your premises, if you wanted me to traipse to where ever it is and fix what ever, i would just have a min fee of say £100, as you cal lose a day on things like this.
You spend the morning, or the evening before loading up the van with all the tools and anything else you think you need for a job, time to get there, do the work, get back, empty van etc, etc, a job that only took 2 hours on site may have taken 8 hours in total if you factor in prep and travel.

 

[Norsk]

For some perspective.

When I labour for my mates mobile mechanic service,I get £90ph. He charges me out at £140+25% Vat.

This is Norway admittedly but it's usually just servicing,fluid changes and filters etc.

 

[addjunkie]

If you are getting the parts oils etc, put a mark up on them to cover your time and hassle factor. I assume you are now vat registered too, especially if buying parts as well as tools etc.

In real terms at modern money a neighbour of mine who is boss of a fairly large 300 staff business reckons its costing about £425 to have a man in a van out and about per day. So to make a living you probably need to be grossing similar.

 

[More Amps]

You say you have trouble with estimates, you're not alone. I'm sure we've all experienced the frustration of starting a job expecting it take two or three hours, and then something goes wrong and you find it takes you all day to do a "simple" job, There's no easy answer beyond hoping that things balance out and some jobs take less time than expected...which then of course means either the customer thinks they're being ripped off or demands that you lower your price because you sorted the problem in half an hour rather than the two hours estimated! Firstly never forget the difference between a quotation and an estimate - a quotation means that you have said I will do this job using parts and will charge you X pounds, an estimate means you have looked at a job and think/guess it will take X hours and use various parts...and the final price may be higher, lower or exactly as judged. If you over-estimate the cost of work it's not a problem - you either take full payment or perhaps reduce the bill if a job has taken a couple of days rather than a full week... If you've under-estimated the cost, the first thing to do is speak to the customer and explain why the cost is going up and ask them if they want to proceed - no-one likes being given an estimate of £500 and only finding out when the job's done that the cost has risen to £1,000. Communication is the key - let them know why the estimated cost has risen, and what the revised cost will be and give them the choice as to whether they want to proceed.

 

[premmington]

I had four decades of self employment.

All at the bottom end of the ladder - fixing cars - indie car repair workshop/workshops...

I can do it - I can really can - if I could not - "I would have starved to death in the last 40yrs"...

---------

Work out your expences - work your costs out - tally it up - do the number - work out what you need to earn daily/weekly and charge the customers "the rate" you need to keep on trading...


If you not willing to do this - just go get a job on PAYE - because you will only get yourself in debt - trying and under charging/failing...


@8ob will back me up on this - I am sure...?

 

[brightspark]

working for nothing just to pay the bills and expenses you can get any amount of work price up all your overheads then add your hourly wage and charge the customer accordingly if your busy jack up the the estimates on jobs that your not fussed on getting if you get them you have scored if not you have lost nothing

 

[Erie Fred]

I bill out (to internal company customers) approx $86 per hour.

 

[Keith 66]

is this called being a busy fool ? paying all the bills and got nothing at the end of it?

Probably! Trouble is certain trades dont pay well & never have. Boatbuilding is one of them, first trade to get hit by a recession & last trade to come out.
I took a step sideways & became a D&T technician, money was still poor but the benefits were good & i wasnt paying to heat the workshop in the winter! Plus every month the money came in., theres a lot to be said for that. When i hear what plumbers, plasterers & other trades earn, 300 a day plus...
Remember £100 a day is only £12.50 an hour just 29p an hour over minimum wage. I used to charge that in the late 80's. Since then our money has devalued by 2/3rds so maybe the Plumbers etc are on the right track charging what they do.
But if nobody at all will pay you that rate what are you going to do?
Most of the small boatbuilders i knew who stuck at it were only able to do so because their partner had a good job in education or other public sector roles.

 

[harveyp6]

I was self employed full-time from 24 to 50, then I cut back and coasted through until my state pension started paying out, a year late I would add.
Early days I did mechanical repairs on one make of cars which I knew inside out so I could fly though jobs that other garages struggled with. What got to me was I'd get people on a far higher hourly rate than I was charging, moaning about how much I was charging, so I started charging those people the same hourly rate as they would have charged me if they were doing work for me.
A few bills at those prices, followed by an explanation why, either shut them up, or they went elsewhere. It didn't happen a lot, but I enjoyed it when it did . Most of them came back with their tails between their legs after jobs were messed up elsewhere, and nothing was said any my hourly rate then.
I never understood why they thought they were worth a higher hourly rate than I was.
Oh, and back to something mentioned earlier, I've never been bored since I packed up work totally.

 

[oilcooled :)]

If you learn to read people, you can make a lot of money. If u give the price, wait for the reaction, if there shocked, then you say that’s vat inclusive, if there normal you say that’s plus vat, handy way making money. Price work pays better than been on a day rate.

 

[harveyp6]

I always kept myself below the VAT threshold. Customers always liked it when I said there was no VAT to pay on top.
Only downside was business customers couldn't claim the VAT back on the parts, so I'd buy the parts in their name and give them the invoice,so they could claim the VAT back.
What a helpful chap I was!

 

[tom2207]

If you learn to read people, you can make a lot of money. If u give the price, wait for the reaction, if there shocked, then you say that’s vat inclusive, if there normal you say that’s plus vat, handy way making money. Price work pays better than been on a day rate.

A variation on the old '' Jewish Optician '' story .

 

[oilcooled :)]

You absolutely have to be vat registered to make money, even diesel without vat is a lot cheaper

 

[tom2207]

You absolutely have to be vat registered to make money, even diesel without vat is a lot cheaper

Im old enough to remember when ''cash was king ''
and '' cash in hand '' meant something , these days people ask for a cash price , and a receipt.