First attempt with MIG (photos)

[kane21]

Hi guys,
I recently bought a clarke 100e MIG to learn to weld in order to repair an old austin mini.

Im looking for advice following my first attempts at welding (0.75 mm steel).

(In the pictures - labels 1 and 4 relate to the lowest power setting, whereas 2 and 3 are at a medium setting)

Using disposable bottles of argon/co2 shielding gas.

I read the page on welding thin sheet so gave the stitching technique a go, however in each weld there appears to be a small dimple (not a porous hole) where each weld ends.
So i tried going back over the previous weld a little before it cooled completely, but i dont think it made much difference (picture 4).

Is there any way to fix this? Does it cause much of a problem?

Also there appears to be slighly more weld material/bead on the rear of the weld than the front, even on the lowest power setting, is it just a case of moving faster along the metal to fix this?

I know the welds arent great, and any advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Kane

 

[Wozzaaah]

Why oh why oh why do people try and learn with such thin steel?
You're doing pretty well but you'll learn a lot more by practising on something a little thicker.
A bit too much penetration but that's understandable as you're using something not much thicker than foil. Don't worry about those dimples, they're just caused by the weld metal cooling, you'll often see one on the end of a run. TIG welding produces them too but many machines have a 'crater fill' setting. Once you've done the repairs you'll probably be grinding the welds down anyway so they won't show.
Good luck with the mini too, got any pics for the projects section?

 

[slimjim]

looks pretty good, now place some copper behined some of the holes, bit of flattened pipe is ideal, then weld up the holes from the edge to the center, in a circular motion,


Your doing a mini, you'll be needing that hole filling tecnique

 

[Sparkey]

Why oh why oh why do people try and learn with such thin steel?

Hahahahaha!
Yeah it's seems they all try it the hard way! The thin stuff is a pain to weld, even with more experience!
Ahhhh, i would loooove to get a big chunk of metal and make a nice big ol' triple pass on it.....rrrrrrrright i'm going off topic here, sorry!!

 

[GeorgeB]

Im looking for advice following my first attempts at welding (0.75 mm steel).

Kane - welcome to the forum. Those welds look pretty amazing to me, especially for a first attempt. I'm sure they'd sail through an MOT, for example. Woz may be right about it being easier to start practising on thicker steel but I followed your approach, by sticking with thin sheet - start as you mean to go on, I say. Thin stuff may be a pain to weld and it looks like your are succeeding. Well done!

 

[Wozzaaah]

The problem with using such thin sheet is that you can ONLY use the thin metal technique, there's no possible chance of running a continuous bead on something as thin as that without blowing through.
It teaches you NOTHING about torch speed, angle of dangle, machine parameters etc. it's just constant blob, blob, blob.
All very well if you only ever need to use the thin metal technique but that's never going to happen.

Not meaning to cast aspersions but I'll bet they weren't Kane's VERY first attempts, more like the first ones he's happy enough with to show us.

 

[kane21]

Not meaning to cast aspersions but I'll bet they weren't Kane's VERY first attempts, more like the first ones he's happy enough with to show us.

Busted haha .

Ok i might have lied a little.
Before buying the clarke i had an old kennedy mig (a rebranded sip migmate 100 i think) must have been at least 20 years old (bought it second hand about 10 years ago, and it was already in a state then).

Tried learning to weld with it a few of years ago and it was fairly hopeless, everything had pretty much gone on it (regulator, torch, wire feed etc). Although i did learn to weld thicker stuff quite well (well as best u can weld with half a welder ).

So now i have an actual need to weld (the mini) i decided rather than repairing the old sip i might as well buy a new one. I'm certainly glad i did, i also bought an auto darkening helmet.

I understand what you mean wozzaaah about learning to weld on the thin stuff and it needing a completely different technique, my first attempts were hopeless as i was trying to weld like you would on the thicker stuff, but i think i soon got the hang of the stitching technique (ony managed to burn one hole so far), just need more practise (and more metal to practise on).

Thanks everyone for the advice and encouragement, I'll make sure to create a post on the mini when i feel confident enough to make a start on it ...probably a long time off yet haha

 

[Wozzaaah]

Hehe, there's no fooling us when it comes to 'first ever welds', we all know what first ever welds look like!
Nice try though, George fell for it!

 

[kane21]

Also sorry forgot to ask about this.

When i bought the welder it came with a bottle of co2 and i bought an extra bottle of co2/argon mix (the 600g 110 litre version).

Now when i connect the regulator to the co2 bottle and turn the regulator to the 3-4 position (as suggested in the manual) you can hear the gas coming out (when the pipe isnt connected).

But when the argon/co2 mix is connected the regulator has to be turned fully on before anything starts coming out, so i have no control of the flow.

Am i wrong in thinking these disposable bottles (both made by clarke) all use the same regulator?

Cheers
Kane

 

[malcolm]

Part of the complaint about thin metal is it's a little difficult for us to offer advice. The thin metal pulsing technique is a botch. It's a handy botch for welding thin metal fair enough, but it doesn't help you understand what metal does when you make it runny, and a bunch of splodges in line don't offer us much clue about your technique.

Much better to get a feel for things on metal 1.5mm or 2mm thick where you can run a continuous bead. Then transfer that technique to thinner stuff.

the disposable bottle regulators are always a pain - they do tend to need to be at max for argon mix for some reason.

 

[Wozzaaah]

They do all use the same regulator but it could be that the pin is slightly more recessed in the mix one so the regulator knob needs to be screwed down further.
Don't worry too much about that, if you get porosity you need more gas so start off lower and up the flow until the welds look good, that way you're less likely to be using too much gas.
I believe some of those regs will only supply enough gas if they're fully open anyway.

 

[abstractduk]

so you show us some good thin metal welding, you say youll be sorting a mini-thin metal body work-so why are "the pro's" whinging about you learning on the type of material that you'll need be working on? now go and spend 10 years at skool getting some welding edookashun and waste all your gas on putting bits off 4mm plate together. what kind of helpful advice is that??!!-im not bitter that your welds are good! ) well done! ) screw the rest!

 

[slimjim]

so you show us some good thin metal welding, you say youll be sorting a mini-thin metal body work-so why are "the pro's" whinging about you learning on the type of material that you'll need be working on? now go and spend 10 years at skool getting some welding edookashun and waste all your gas on putting bits off 4mm plate together. what kind of helpful advice is that??!!-im not bitter that your welds are good! ) well done! ) screw the rest!

Ouch, bit harsh I think,


the pro's are just wanting to be helpfull, by showing that the tecnique is better honed when your not having to worrie about blowing holes, you can see the weld pool better and get your tecnique honed, this can pay dividends on thin stuff, and I would agree that this would be helpfull, just my amature opinion

 

[malcolm]

Peeves me too that anyone should offer help and advice on here in response to someone who asked for advice. What were you guys thinking?

Practising with thicker metal allows continuous welds which allows a weld pool to be established and understood. That information is useful to take forward to other techniques and welding conditions.

What do you think was wrong with that advice? And what do you think would have been better advice? Or are you just trolling as a few of your previous posts suggest?

 

[the snooper]

i think the problem is that some people only buy the mig to repair a car or something made of light steel and unlike some of us they dont have anything thicker lying around where as shown in the picture above people do have thinner material around they look like shelving brackets and they just dive in (new toys and all that) but without doubt thicker steel is easier to weld allowing you to practise you technique then one you master that you will have a better under standing of why your mig acts like a plasma cutter on your car and you have just cut a 4 inch hole in the floor instead of welding up the 2 inch you started with

 

[GeorgeB]

Nice try though, George fell for it!

I didn't fall for anything, You may be taking things too literally.

 

[abstractduk]

please-dont get me wrong-this site has to be one of the best online for welding tips. you get good advice, opinions and the response is quick enough. im just saying that as a learner myself, im making all my mistakes on the car that im putting back together. sure, im not creating the prettiest welds in the world but i dont have the time or money to spend hour upon hour in the shed sticking off cuts together-though ive done enough to create a small pile of eastern bloc revolutionary sculpture. i mean when you make a good weld on the bench-theres a little more to it when it comes to dragging your mig outside and laying deep in the dark footwell with barely enough room to fit your misted up welding mask..and those good welds you made in the shed-well they should be holding your car together, not sitting on the side destined for the landfill. most welding mistakes can be rectified so why not just do it where you need to? of course practice makes perfect-but then we are talking about one car-your next will be better as will your repairs. learning the hard way might not even be quicker but to me its probably better to stay closer to the job in hand than practising on something totally unrelated. ive been learning on thin metal-yes you end up stitching and its just stitching but then thats what you would end up doing even if youd spent 100 hours practising on some more substantial material. so why not start where you mean to end? i understand a lot of people here are professional welders, gained a qualification and have quite an academic approach. lets face it, we're not dealing with nuclear material here and the best way to get into it is to have a go, to get the feel for it, take a good look whats happening under the arc. biggest problems in my welding life are-working in dark confined spaces-artificial light screwing with my autodarkening visor, fogged up visor and lack of escape route from said confined spaces. welding is one thing-the logistics-thats the real pain in the ass for me! my car is a brief history of my weld improvement-starting from down right pointless molten pigeon crap to good penetrating beads. sure i need to go back with the grinder and pee the neighbours off with my noise but im getting there-gradually. happy new year! ..and buy some silver while you can! )

 

[malcolm]

It sounds like you have had a lot of trouble learning to weld. Most people can pick up the basic technique in a few hours with decent machine and instruction. Normally I'd suggest posting photos in a new thread and asking for advice, but we'll not pick up any problems with your arc length, wire speed or torch angle if you are not prepared to try a continuous weld, so I'd suggest you don't bother.

Can we draw the thread back towards helping out kane21 rather than going off topic? Thanks.

 

[abstractduk]

haha my welding is fine-setting fire to the underseal on my car and having my 6.4ft frame trapped under the steering wheel is not. breathing in grinding particles-not being able to see what im doing makes for crappy welds...not being able to breathe etc.. on a bench, heater on, birds singing in the background...fantastic thanks.

 

[seanlogie]

Hi guys,
I recently bought a clarke 100e MIG to learn to weld in order to repair an old austin mini.

Im looking for advice following my first attempts at welding (0.75 mm steel).

(In the pictures - labels 1 and 4 relate to the lowest power setting, whereas 2 and 3 are at a medium setting)

Using disposable bottles of argon/co2 shielding gas.

I read the page on welding thin sheet so gave the stitching technique a go, however in each weld there appears to be a small dimple (not a porous hole) where each weld ends.
So i tried going back over the previous weld a little before it cooled completely, but i dont think it made much difference (picture 4).

Is there any way to fix this? Does it cause much of a problem?

Also there appears to be slighly more weld material/bead on the rear of the weld than the front, even on the lowest power setting, is it just a case of moving faster along the metal to fix this?

I know the welds arent great, and any advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Kane

I know i'm new here but i've done my fair share of welding over the yrs ,the only thing i see wrong (not so much wrong) is too much build up ,fine on a scrap bit of stock but a nightmare if you were welding on your mini because it'll cost ya a fortune on discs ,for someone who's not done a lot of welding their dam fine great effort .And thats just my opinion