wet belt cars.

[roofman]

York 2.4 4AA - horrendous engine - near impossible to get started on a cold morning.

York made a six cylinder version of this I think (3500cc...?)

-------

My Dad had a MkII Granada with a 2.1 Peugeot diesel engine in from the factory at about the same time. Dad called this Granada - "the slow pig".


This was at the time when not all petrol stations sold diesel. Takes some getting your head around that fact. May go full circle in my lifetime - petrol only at the pumps.

My mk1 tranny diesel back in the day (70,s) had a hand pump in the cab to pump ether into the intake on to a hot element on cold starts...even then it was a bugger to start on frosty mornings. Only way to get it to start reliably was a gas torch right up the intake.

 

[Trevorleach]

York 2.4 4AA - horrendous engine - near impossible to get started on a cold morning.

York made a six cylinder version of this I think (3500cc...?)

-------

My Dad had a MkII Granada with a 2.1 Peugeot diesel engine in from the factory at about the same time. Dad called this Granada - "the slow pig".


This was at the time when not all petrol stations sold diesel. Takes some getting your head around that fact. May go full circle in my lifetime - petrol only at the pumps.

I had the York in a LR series 2, was okay always started okay so long as you followed the correct procedure.

 

[badabec]

You need this, from Australia

 

[bricol]

Fully expect mine to start when I go out to it this afternoon after I spent a couple weeks in the USA. Mind you, it's only done 207,000 miles, so at 34 yrs old, probably not got to the unreliable bit of it's life.

Last one did well over 100,000 in my hands before I sold it (as I'd bought this one) - failed to start once at work due to a failed earth connection to the engine.


Edited as I just remembered something - earlier this year (or was it later last year - time flies) the box started to make more noise than I like - removed it and handed it to local factors - within a day had a message and photo that the bearing on the end of the main shaft had worn, but they didn't know where to get one . . . some rummaging later I had a number and a few days later I had it back, refitted it and silence resumed. Rest of the box was pronounced in excellent condition with no work needed. I've always run it on Millers oils since I bought it at 80,000 miles, it's done a lot of towing of my trials car up and down the country, as well as usually been driven with enthusiasm, so I reckon that's a good thumbs up for Millers.

I think I might even wash it this weekend.

Well, it didn't start . . . then I remembered I'd removed the ignition to cap lead as an anti-theft measure . . . and it still didn't start . . . then I remembered I'd pulled the fuel pump fuse too . . . then it started

And then I did wash it - underneath, and the amount of winter crap to come out from under from my daily commute on the back roads for the last year!

My Ford crossflow engined trials car started today too - run the electric fuel pump, pull the choke on the SU carb, and it fired within a couple of spins and settled down nicely to tick-over. Must have sat for at least 11 months. So that's pretty much full prep for the Yorkshire Classic Trial in May

 

[dobbslc]

I thought someone might know who to send this to at Ford so they can see how it should be done.

 

[minimutly]

just looked it up. as i thought 0-30 is better for cold starts and lubricates a lot quicker than 5-30 being thinner. at running temperature both do the same job

Well everything is relative, both those oils are like water, relative to 20-30

 

[minimutly]

I thought someone might know who to send this to at Ford so they can see how it should be done.
View attachment 494668

Ford should know, they did this with the 2.2 engine, good strong chain and tensioners. The bean counters failed them methinks...

 

[Melvyn Best]

My Ford crossflow engined trials car started today too - run the electric fuel pump, pull the choke on the SU carb, and it fired within a couple of spins and settled down nicely to tick-over. Must have sat for at least 11 months. So that's pretty much full prep for the Yorkshire Classic Trial in May

My crossflow engined kit car I converted it to fuel injection / engine management starts and runs so much better since the conversion

 

[ibrooks]

I liked mine, my sister said I was too old to be driving one of those

View attachment 492559

A diesel one of these (or a 45) would be high on my list of possibles if looking for a replacement daily. I had a 45 that got written off and I loved it. a few years later I got a diesel MG ZR thinking it would be the same but smaller - wrong. The ZR/25 was OK but not a patch on the ZS/45 and much as it pains me to say it I think it was probably the Honda Civic shining through in the 45. The gearboxes aren't really up to the torque of the diesel engine though - they last longer in a 45 as the tyres will slip as a bit of a torque limiting device whilst the wider wheels on the MG versions gave it enough grip to overstrain on the diff.

 

[Ubique]

I thought someone might know who to send this to at Ford so they can see how it should be done.
View attachment 494668

Thats a simplex chain- just as bothersome as wet or dry belts. When I worked at a M-B dealer, I was changing 4-6 a month - in and out of warranty. If you want something that will last longer, then a duplex chain is a good compromise.

 

[bricol]

My crossflow engined kit car I converted it to fuel injection / engine management starts and runs so much better since the conversion

I have thought about it - I have a spare Emerald, trigger wheels, injectors etc - but it starts and runs so well it's just not worth it. Trialling requires being able to trickle along on little or no throttle, with instant pickup when you floor it when you want wheel speed. With the ability to back off as soon as you feel wheelspin, drop the revs but keep going at the new throttle setting without a hiccup.

And it just does. Will pull wheelies on good grip

I'd like to say it's the result of hours and hours of testing and work, sanding the needle, playing with the tube, damper spring, damper oil etc . .

So I will . . "it's the result in hours and hours of testing and work, sanding the needle, playing with the tube, damper spring, damper oil"



When in reality, I took off the 950 Frod carb, with 1300 jets in, with some pancake filter wodged on top that used to work well until you needed POWER - and then it ran out of puff. And bolted on a welded up Ford manifold, with the HIF already mounted, that I think came off and autograss car, bought from ebay 20 odd years ago.

And it just worked. I tried twin SUs (converted from waxstats to manual) on a cast manifold specifically for them - but felt it was no better. Carbs ended up going to someone in Washington, USA!

 

[bricol]

Thats a simplex chain- just as bothersome as wet or dry belts. When I worked at a M-B dealer, I was changing 4-6 a month - in and out of warranty. If you want something that will last longer, then a duplex chain is a good compromise.

Looks more like an inverted tooth chain rather than a roller chain. Much higher power transmission capabilities, less stress, longer life, higher strength, less elongation etc.

 

[Melvyn Best]

I have thought about it - I have a spare Emerald, trigger wheels, injectors etc - but it starts and runs so well it's just not worth it. Trialling requires being able to trickle along on little or no throttle, with instant pickup when you floor it when you want wheel speed. With the ability to back off as soon as you feel wheelspin, drop the revs but keep going at the new throttle setting without a hiccup.

And it just does. Will pull wheelies on good grip

I'd like to say it's the result of hours and hours of testing and work, sanding the needle, playing with the tube, damper spring, damper oil etc . .

So I will . . "it's the result in hours and hours of testing and work, sanding the needle, playing with the tube, damper spring, damper oil"



When in reality, I took off the 950 Frod carb, with 1300 jets in, with some pancake filter wodged on top that used to work well until you needed POWER - and then it ran out of puff. And bolted on a welded up Ford manifold, with the HIF already mounted, that I think came off and autograss car, bought from ebay 20 odd years ago.

And it just worked. I tried twin SUs (converted from waxstats to manual) on a cast manifold specifically for them - but felt it was no better. Carbs ended up going to someone in Washington, USA!

I can poodle along in 5th gear at 10MPHthen just floor the throttle and away it goes. The engine isn’t over modified just a Kent BCF2 cam , a decent head , motorbike throttle bodies on a home made inlet manifold and a 4 branch manifold. Around 130 BHP and 120 NM torque on Emeralds rolling road

 

[bricol]

I thought someone might know who to send this to at Ford so they can see how it should be done.

That one might - see above.

But the duplex roller chains in the GM/Alfa/Suzuki/Cadillac V6 of the early noughties stretch for fun. Here in the UK, replacement bits for an Alfa was 2 grand ten years ago - direct from GM parts r us (or something like ) in the USA, all branded GM parts (got all the GM part numbers of the bits inside the Alfa engine)was a few hundred quid delivered. So bad, Autozone in the USA did a kit for a couple hundred dollars to do it.

When it first started to become apparent there was an issue, as it threw up the engine management light as sensors on the cams and crank were out of sync, Cadillac apparently simply increased the amount of error they would accept in the ECU programming. Fixed!

Except they kept stretching. I think there were two redesign attempts.

Used two roller chains and one inverted tooth chain. Right pain the bum to do in a tranverse engined Alfa - engine out job. Fit two chain, rotate engine, fit the last, button it up, spend two days refitting engine and hope you didn't get the same misfire loads of others seemed to do - as you pulled the retaining pin on the last tensioner, if you weren't careful, it would allow the chain to jump a tooth or two.

 

[minimutly]

A diesel one of these (or a 45) would be high on my list of possibles if looking for a replacement daily. I had a 45 that got written off and I loved it. a few years later I got a diesel MG ZR thinking it would be the same but smaller - wrong. The ZR/25 was OK but not a patch on the ZS/45 and much as it pains me to say it I think it was probably the Honda Civic shining through in the 45. The gearboxes aren't really up to the torque of the diesel engine though - they last longer in a 45 as the tyres will slip as a bit of a torque limiting device whilst the wider wheels on the MG versions gave it enough grip to overstrain on the diff.

The 45/400/civic/zs was a good car, civic design going back to '95 if I recall. Never had a gearbox problem, even with my V6 zs. My daughter had a Civic EK (1300 split rear bootlid), I fitted Rover 45 front legs, ZS diesel springs and shocks, 45 rear drums, Rover 230gti springs and shocks. Best handling and stopping car ever. We had (still have) a B16 vvc engine to fit, but she had babies instead..
The ZR was a poor relation, neither the front or rear suspension was the same, and it showed.

 

[bricol]

I can poodle along in 5th gear at 10MPHthen just floor the throttle and away it goes. The engine isn’t over modified just a Kent BCF2 cam , a decent head , motorbike throttle bodies on a home made inlet manifold and a 4 branch manifold. Around 130 BHP and 120 NM torque on Emeralds rolling road

I have a Piper (or Kent - its a long time ago ) trials grind (ie mild), running a small valve head for low rev torque, with an unknown hacked about 4-1, that SU, mk4 escort electronic ignition and it's not that far behind that - running through a P100 box and a 5. something diff, it will climb walls. And do 50mph at valve bounce revs in 4th.

And a simplex chain on a vernier chain wheel - no discernable wear on the chain or sprockets in 20 yrs of abuse - simply not loaded heavily on a simple 8 valve head.

I have a Rover K in my Caterham on throttle bodies, Emerald, a self-ported head, and other than a jammed stat on their rollers a long time ago, that will pull from tickover to rev limiter in 6th - just under 200bhp. And reminded today, on my first day of using it this year (after only three drives last year) that it needs revs to develop the oomph to get up and go - been spoilt by the real torque in my other cars.

 

[MetalMonkey]

A diesel one of these (or a 45) would be high on my list of possibles if looking for a replacement daily. I had a 45 that got written off and I loved it. a few years later I got a diesel MG ZR thinking it would be the same but smaller - wrong. The ZR/25 was OK but not a patch on the ZS/45 and much as it pains me to say it I think it was probably the Honda Civic shining through in the 45. The gearboxes aren't really up to the torque of the diesel engine though - they last longer in a 45 as the tyres will slip as a bit of a torque limiting device whilst the wider wheels on the MG versions gave it enough grip to overstrain on the diff.

The PG1 boxes weren't really designed to handle a lot of torque but did OK, it was the differential bearings that was the biggest problem with them really, especially on the models fitted with the TORSEN differentials (Coupe, Ti, Vitesse etc).

The original design was actually for taper bearings, but Rover swapped them for deep groove ball races which just didn't cope with the axial loading.
There were various upgrades and modifications you could do to mitigate it though. With a bit of care and modification I was putting over 320ft/lb through them. Which was fun.

45/ZS were excellent handling cars, the 200/25/ZR could be surpassingly nimble with some alterations to the back end (think BRM for example), and the 600s were based off the accord platform and had double wishbone and did very well for the size.
Those Honda years were an excellent era for MGR products IMO, just a shame BMW took them out back with a shotgun and a shovel.

 

[dobbslc]

BMW took them out back with a shotgun and a shovel.

Don't forget the swag bag for the Mini design...

 

[m_c]

I thought someone might know who to send this to at Ford so they can see how it should be done.
View attachment 494668

Whilst on this topic, I had a chat with our head of fleet last week, and we're getting some Transit Customs on the fleet to replace Transporters.
He's paranoid about the wet belts, and has been in discussions with Ford engineering about them.
Ford have apparently tried chains on the 2.0, but they can't meet emissions with a chain due to the additional valve timing clearance needed to allow for chain wear.

 

[dobbslc]

Emissions.