Anybody own a mini cooper? (BMW)

[AndyStobbs]

Got a job on at the moment, mini cooper s in need of a clutch. Its R53 model number. Its also been reported to have an engine rattle which I've witnessed for myself.

Usually queit from cold start with 3.75bar oil pressure (according to factory fitted gauge), but typically rattles from a hot start. Amazingly, turning it off and restarting seems to cure the rattle (usually after one cycle, less often it could take 3 cycles).

Rattle sounds to me like timing chain area. It has already had the timing chain tensioner replaced (which is hydraulic) and seems to have made little or no difference, though this seems to be a succesful fix in most cases.

I think its oil pressure related, but cannot get my head around how a shut down and restart is making it quieter. The oil pressure doesn't vary from the original hot start to any subsequent off/on cycles.
I'm also wondering if the chain is stopping in a more favourable position on subsequent starts and tensioner is able to take up slightly more slack.

The engine is out at the moment and I want to try and make the right diagnosis first time around.

So if anybody has a cooper s, and has experienced similar that input would be fantastic. Failing that, could any owners of a cooper s report your oil pressure tendancies please.

Thanks

Also, I plan to lift rocker cover and check lifters etc. tomorrow, also timing cover is coming off anyway for investigative purposes. I don't want to put a chain kit on it for no improvement though.

Andy

 

[Badger1bear]

I did a brief search on google and got this

http://www.mini2.com/forum/first-generation-mini-cooper-s/142250-whats-normal-oil-pressure-s.html

I reckon your get more answers on there

I have found using lucas oil treatment in any/all of my engines it has always made them run quieter

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=2

 

[DrNik]

are you sure its an engine rattle and not a clutch rattle, does it disappear when you put your foot on the clutch, 1st motion shaft bearings???

 

[AndyStobbs]

Absolutely positively engine rattle.
badger1bear, I also have been all over google and read alot of posts. Many culminate in a new chain tensioner fixing the problem. Which has not been the case here.
Ref: the oil addative it might be ok in some cases but I would rather get to route cause.

Thanks

 

[harvey639]

I'm a BMW apprentice, take the sump off and look for small bits of hard plastic. they have a problem with the chains stretching and causing damage to the guides. hope this helps.

 

[Robotstar5]

Might be worth sending a pm to rkde, he's currently building a (BMW) Mini engine.

 

[AndyStobbs]

ok thanks Guys. Will PM rkde and pick his brain if he's agreeable.

Just noticed I had typed 'route' rather than 'root' last night

 

[p0689109]

Bit of a tangent thought but the fact that sometimes 3 starts is required, could that be the starter thats stopping and rattling something at that position only?? Just an oblique angle thought. Some times when you type in a particular search on line the words you use for the search can mislead your investigation. I.e. making it oil related!!
Good luck. MT

 

[rkde]

Could be a host of problems, I have now rebuilt several tritec engines (r53) lumps.

There are several areas of rattle which are known about and happen to all of them. First is the tensioner which you have already done but if you didn't do it right it may need to be taken out and I find compressing it in oil works really well to bed them in. Also dirty oil can cause them to be noisy. However you have said the restarting the engine can fix it?

I have re-built about 5 but worked on them since 2004 and not yet seen one stretched chain, not saying it doesn't happen (does to 2006 R56 on) I have seen chain guides fail over time and miles.

tappets do break and its quite common but its again to the oil, sometimes a good oil change and some 10 40w will sort it out as when they age 5 30w is a little thin.

Last thing is the clutch bearing, this is rubbish and rattles after about 5,000 miles from new but you will be used to that by now.

chain and tensioner

To do the clutch just whip the engine out its far easier to do it that way, you can take it out with the drive shaft for the passenger side still attached along with the loom and all the ancillaries. I always leave the steering together and leave the sub frame on now as on the drive that is a pain in the bum to do

Here is one I built last year

If you are doing a clutch get the following as it will need changing. release bearing guide, release bearing, main engine oil seal, gearbox input shaft seal and clutch bolts)

 

[AndyStobbs]

Thanks for the input again.
Harvey639 - you are spot on the money, chain guide has broken up on the 'tight' side of the chain. Sump isn't off yet but chain cover is. Will remove sump tomorrow and fish out the bits of nylon.

Have a got a full chain kit ready to be fitted.

rkde, I also removed the engine and box as unit. I didn't fancy trying to remove the gearbox alone, and given the rattle it made sense to hit both jobs at once.
Clutch kit is ready and waiting, DMF feels ok so not going to change that at present.

Found it very tight to get the lump out, mainly because the selector cable mounting was getting stuck under the airbox mounting tray. Do you remove the whole front end, including condensor to gain more room at the front?

Water pump is also leaking so thats getting replaced too.

Oh and RE: manual gearbox oil, what do you fill them with? Build date on this one is october 2004, my databook suggests an oil I've not heard of before and it sounds expensive.

 

[rkde]

Just make sure you replace the bits I listed else you will soon be taking the box of again, I do remove the front and swing it round to the side

 

[AndyStobbs]

There are no signs of oil loss from box or engine as yet. I see your logic in replacing it while its out, but also feel a line has to be drawn somewhere. Typically when doing clutches I only replace seals if they are leaking or car has mega miles. This is on 70000 miles approx, can I expect it to start leaking soon?

 

[rkde]

They all fail by 80k and they revised the bearing guide in 2004 as the bearing started to weld on to the guide. Done about 15 clutch changes and seen the same thing fail. You can get away without the gearbox input shaft but the main engine seal generally go about 60k so yours has done well

 

[harvey639]

your best bet for gearbox oil will be BMW and MINI dealer they should stock some, i know we do.

 

[normspanners]

MTF LT3 if has not been changed
MTF LT4 if refilling but do not mix the two!

 

[AndyStobbs]

Thanks fellas. Car is back together now, nice and quiet with no rattles.

 

[titi]

Hello Andy

Thanks fellas. Car is back together now, nice and quiet with no rattles.

Hello Andy, my r53 engine do rattle in first warm startup, cold is quiet, what is your problem, timing chain tensioner or tappets?

 

[daleyd]

Hello Andy

Hello Andy, my r53 engine do rattle in first warm startup, cold is quiet, what is your problem, timing chain tensioner or tappets?

Hello! Last reply on this thread was 2013 and Andy hasn’t been seen on here for a good while - maybe better to start a new thread rather than replying on here.

 

[dobbslc]

Yes start a new thread, my boy is after a Mini and I know they have many comments faults so I'll be interested in this.

 

[Melvyn Best]

Hate Minis with a vengeance, I wouldn’t have one as a gift .