Headlights

[northwest]

Sorry, modern Eurovans lights are way too high, too powerful, and usually driven by white van man on the way too, or home from a job, so not thinking about anyone but himself. This is my experience, but I may be wrong.

Mine too and I can't beat em so............

 

[rtcosic]

There's a desperate need for UNECE (who regulate such matters as part of one of the Vienna Conventions) to update their criteria for headlights to restrict both colour temperature and luminous intensity to levels that don't adversely affect other road users.

The relevant subcommittee is finalizing that, along with location, size, spacing and output of brake, marker, signal and running lights.
No 2 son chairs that committee and we often argue about it!

 

[dobbslc]

I got stuck behind some type of Tesla turning right last week in brightish sunlight as I couldn't see his useless rear indicators as he has his foot on the brakes. The indicator was about 2" wide by 1" tall and completely surrounded by the brake light!
Absolute madness.
Nissan Jukes and Qasqui also have really bad front indicators blinded out by the stupid daytime running lights.
It needs sorting and dare I say that existing cars that don't comply with the current regs (we all know a lot don't) need to be updated quick or crushed.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

The relevant subcommittee is finalizing that, along with location, size, spacing and output of brake, marker, signal and running lights.
No 2 son chairs that committee and we often argue about it!

Well the more you know...

I don't envy your son though, trying to get a sensible, fair consensus agreement on that must be a nightmare.

 

[minimutly]

Binning DRLs would be a good start, no evidence they make anyone safer? (I expect someone will find data that proves me wrong)...

 

[voipio]

Binning DRLs would be a good start, no evidence they make anyone safer? (I expect someone will find data that proves me wrong)...

When DRLs were first introduced, the clear, steady trend of decline in road deaths before DRLs, was reversed in the years following their introduction. That decline, in the UK, did not resume as people "got used to them" (DRLS) and, in Austria, the increasing road deaths following DRL introduction was considered so significant, it led to DRLs being banned there.

There are signs, from data analysis by the US Department of Transportation, that DRLs do not make their roads safer. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Driving in London at the weekend rammed home how bad for safety DRLs are. On road after road, I encountered line after line of vision-inhibiting glare coming from the oncoming traffic queues that were making their way round the weekend M25 closure, causing it to be much more difficult to see other road users, pedestrians, potholes, road signs, and other traffic relevant objects. I hope the UNECE sees fit to ban DRLs or, at the very least, to limit their brightness to about 1% of the present level. Please, @rtcosic, could you pass this on to No 2 son. It is important.

 

[RWD3M]

Part of the problem is that the Construction and Use Regulations (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents) are well out of date. They still give brightness levels in wattage which of course nowadays is completely irrelevant. As @rtcosic notes, these regulations are currentlyundergoing a complete review and should, hopefully, address a lot of these issues.

 

[RWD3M]

When DRLs were first introduced, the clear, steady trend of decline in road deaths before DRLs, was reversed in the years following their introduction. That decline, in the UK, did not resume as people "got used to them" (DRLS) and, in Austria, the increasing road deaths following DRL introduction was considered so significant, it led to DRLs being banned there.

There are signs, from data analysis by the US Department of Transportation, that DRLs do not make their roads safer. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Driving in London at the weekend rammed home how bad for safety DRLs are. On road after road, I encountered line after line of vision-inhibiting glare coming from the oncoming traffic queues that were making their way round the weekend M25 closure, causing it to be much more difficult to see other road users, pedestrians, potholes, road signs, and other traffic relevant objects. I hope the UNECE sees fit to ban DRLs or, at the very least, to limit their brightness to about 1% of the present level. Please, @rtcosic, could you pass this on to No 2 son. It is important.

And don't forget the number of drivers who drive in complete darkness with nothing more than DRL's illuminated. In part due, I'm sure, to the fact that they are too bright and on modern cars, dashboards/instrument clusters are now lit up like Blackpool illuminations as soon as you get in a car! Back in the day, if you couldn't see your speedo, you put your lights on!

 

[rtcosic]

Shall we restart the debate about high level brake lights introduced because Americans persist in flashing their brake lights........................................*

I searched for and failed to find any research backing up my firmly held opinion that DRLs are responsible for many motorcycle accidents. When motorcycles were the only vehicles showing lights in daylight they stood out, were noticed and accidents were reduced. Now all vehicles display very large bright DRLs motorcycles disappear in their glare.
<Rant Off>

*USA isn't a member of the UNECE committee

 

[dobbslc]

Very true. You'd have thought some research has been done into the effects of mandatory DRL on venerable road users...

 

[Morrisman]

I got stuck behind some type of Tesla turning right last week in brightish sunlight as I couldn't see his useless rear indicators as he has his foot on the brakes. The indicator was about 2" wide by 1" tall and completely surrounded by the brake light!
Absolute madness.
Nissan Jukes and Qasqui also have really bad front indicators blinded out by the stupid daytime running lights.
It needs sorting and dare I say that existing cars that don't comply with the current regs (we all know a lot don't) need to be updated quick or crushed.

The ones that annoy the pish out of me are when they have the tail and brake lights at normal height, 4’ from the ground…. then the turn signals totally separate, tucked down low where the tow bar height would be. Almost like they are purposefully trying to cause accidents.

Following a couple of cars a few months back, one at the front stopped, I could see brake lights, but nobody moving, so I eventually filtered carefully down the outside, on my bike, and that was when I saw the front car had his right flasher on, tucked down a foot from the floor, and a good 12” inboard of the outer edge of the car.

 

[rtcosic]

The relevant subcommittee is finalizing that, along with location, size, spacing and output of brake, marker, signal and running lights...

Sorry. Indignant No2 points out it's a Working Party not a subcommittee:

Working Party on Lighting and Light-Signalling - Introduction | UNECE

unece.org

Working Party on Lighting and Light-Signalling (GRE) - Transport - Vehicle Regulations - UNECE Wiki

wiki.unece.org

He is pleased to point out that as the only native English speaker and Chairman he controls the final draft of any proposals.

 

[rtcosic]

...
Following a couple of cars a few months back, one at the front stopped, I could see brake lights, but nobody moving, so I eventually filtered carefully down the outside, on my bike, and that was when I saw the front car had his right flasher on, tucked down a foot from the floor, and a good 12” inboard of the outer edge of the car.

Don't have No 2 son as a passenger. He gleefully points out all the current vehicles which do NOT meet the UNECE requirements.

And why the LR Defender has the silly after-thought rear tail lights.

And speculates why many other vehicles have equally clunky after-thoughts to compensate for Stylists' whims or Marketers' Inspirations.

Enter your guess which brand is the worst offender has the most egregious examples of 'pushing the regulatory envelope' below:

 

[Kram]

I think the root cause of that problem might be between the seat and the steering wheel... (Edit: of the following car I hasten to add)

The regs for lights require dipped beams to be angled more steeply downward if the centerline of the bulb is above a certain height (835mm or 850mm I think), which vans and HGV's have managed fine with for decades now.

So height shouldn't be a major factor if the lights are adjusted correctly, and the driver behind is leaving an adequate separation distance...

Having mentioned HGV's, tailgating you to within and inch of your life is not generally the behaviour from the driver of a Scania 730S... but the driver of say a BMW X5, they'll happily sit inches off your towbar with zero awareness.

Interesting point, while HGV and vans are bigger overall, Im not sure if the lights are fitted higher on than SUV's, and I have not had issue with them, possibly because most are much older or poverty spec..

I also have another part to my rant, which is lazy gits that sit on the brake pedal at junctions/lights. Its easily done. I often pull the sun shade right down to block it.

I got stuck behind some type of Tesla turning right last week in brightish sunlight as I couldn't see his useless rear indicators as he has his foot on the brakes. The indicator was about 2" wide by 1" tall and completely surrounded by the brake light!
Absolute madness.
Nissan Jukes and Qasqui also have really bad front indicators blinded out by the stupid daytime running lights.
It needs sorting and dare I say that existing cars that don't comply with the current regs (we all know a lot don't) need to be updated quick or crushed.

Ah, similar to most busses then, there the indicator is a small yellow blob in the centre of the brake light, well hidden. This is to counter the fact that most bus drivers do infact use their indicators, usually at the same instant they start moving and pushing you out of their way!!

 

[Morrisman]

Ah, similar to most busses then, there the indicator is a small yellow blob in the centre of the brake light, well hidden. This is to counter the fact that most bus drivers do infact use their indicators, usually at the same instant they start moving and pushing you out of their way!!

Probably use the technique of hitting the turn light switch as they’re spinning the steering wheel: ‘may as well, my hands going that way anyway’…

 

[dobbslc]

Yes they don't like it when you don't or can't give way as you're already halfway down the side of the bus when they pull out.
They even display a stupid sticker on the back saying highway code blaa blaa the bus has right of way!
Nonsense.

 

[Kram]

Enter your guess which brand is the worst offender has the most egregious examples of 'pushing the regulatory envelope' below:

Do the regulations state anything about the automatic DRL turning off due to turning the steering wheel, as some supposed replacement for drivers that dont indicate?

Or the flashing of the DRL alternate to the indicator to increase contrast? It annoys me because its unnessasary - not the indicator, the DRL!

 

[Onoff]

Because of the myriad of potholes around here I bought some rough service LED headlamp bulbs for SWMBO's 206. Only when I got them did I see they're not for road use.

 

[minimutly]

Shall we restart the debate about high level brake lights introduced because Americans persist in flashing their brake lights........................................*

I searched for and failed to find any research backing up my firmly held opinion that DRLs are responsible for many motorcycle accidents. When motorcycles were the only vehicles showing lights in daylight they stood out, were noticed and accidents were reduced. Now all vehicles display very large bright DRLs motorcycles disappear in their glare.
<Rant Off>

*USA isn't a member of the UNECE committee

We have flashing rear brake lights here too - I remember following a colleague in a vectra I think, driven enthusiastically (well very), on hard braking his lights flashed, on normal braking they didn't.

 

[voipio]

Flashing brake lights suggest repeated light braking or a poorly maintained brake light switch.