Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[daleyd]

Anybody that didn’t think that the government wouldn’t keep their take of revenue by hook or by crook is living in cloud cuckoo land.

People didn’t “fail to see it coming” - the choice is either to pay tax on an ice or have a few years of not paying it on an ev. The VED evens things up but the “fuel” cost is still, for now at least still pretty decent (assuming you can charge at home etc).

At some point though the government will of course reduce that as well - you are not some sort of all knowing sage for pointing this out - it was always on the cards.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Retrospective anything is a bad idea...I think they'll probably make it prospective after 2025...but they won't give the game away until it happens.

Smart meters and smart chargers are a clear route towards taxing EV electricity I'm thinking.

 

[premmington]

Anybody that didn’t think that the government wouldn’t keep their take of revenue by hook or by crook is living in cloud cuckoo land.

People didn’t “fail to see it coming” - the choice is either to pay tax on an ice or have a few years of not paying it on an ev. The VED evens things up but the “fuel” cost is still, for now at least still pretty decent (assuming you can charge at home etc).

At some point though the government will of course reduce that as well - you are not some sort of all knowing sage for pointing this out - it was always on the cards.

I would agree with you and what you have said above.

But retrospective charging is a bad idea.... Not nice...

 

[premmington]

Retrospective anything is a bad idea...I think they'll probably make it prospective after 2025...but they won't give the game away until it happens.

Smart meters and smart chargers are a clear route towards taxing EV electricity I'm thinking.

I hope you are right about this....

 

[MetalMonkey]

Governments act in self preservation and to serve their own interests, not those who elected them. Twas ever so, will ever be, and should never come as a suprise.

It's never the revenue from tax I object to, it's the criminal way they waste it.

 

[premmington]

Governments act in self preservation and to serve their own interests, not those who elected them. Twas ever so, will ever be, and should never come as a suprise.

It's never the revenue from tax I object to, it's the criminal way they waste it.

But if they roll out RFL and then VAT and fuel duty on electric for EV's

This may slow down or stop the "green initiative"...

Seems to me - it is all "greenwashing" - they just finding new ways to tax Co2 - give themselves something else to trade in - tax the masses on.

-------

If you care about the planet - and I hate to say this - the topless chicks from Extinction Rebellion have a more credible agenda....

 

[daleyd]

I would agree with you and what you have said above.

Retrospective charging is a bad idea.... Not nice...

If a government wants to “move” things in a certain direction, they have basically 2 choices.

Make the thing they want to move away from expensive or ban it outright. That’s where they are with ice at the moment.

For something that they want to introduce, give things like grants, tax breaks and incentives to make it financially attractive. That’s what they are doing with ev, and are now in the process of reducing these differentials. A couple of years ago you could get a couple of grand off a new ev purchase if it was under a certain amount, and they were giving grants to install charger - both these have long gone already.

That’s it - it’ll be some combination of those that they use to persuade people to change. History shows that grants/incentives only last so long, once there becomes a critical mass then they invariably get pulled and the status quo returns, they continue to get their take.

It’s been the same in the past, it’ll be the same in the future.

 

[premmington]

If a government wants to “move” things in a certain direction, they have basically 2 choices.

Make the thing they want to move away from expensive or ban it outright. That’s where they are with ice at the moment.

For something that they want to introduce, give things like grants, tax breaks and incentives to make it financially attractive. That’s what they are doing with ev, and are now in the process of reducing these differentials. A couple of years ago you could get a couple of grand off a new ev purchase if it was under a certain amount, and they were giving grants to install charger - both these have long gone already.

That’s it - it’ll be some combination of those that they use to persuade people to change. History shows that grants/incentives only last so long, once there becomes a critical mass then they invariably get pulled and the status quo returns, they continue to get their take.

It’s been the same in the past, it’ll be the same in the future.

"The carrot has gone and it is out with the stick"

Banning ICE cars - is not gonna be an easy hurdle to cross either - unless every other western country in the world does it as well...

Another point from this thread - that has came up - if transport poverty comes and if it only affects the lower 15/20% of people and they can't get to the shops or work - thats the economy down the toilet as well....

 

[MetalMonkey]

But if they roll out RFL and then VAT and fuel duty on electric for EV's

This may slow down or stop the "green initiative"...

"The carrot has gone and it is out with the stick"

I think you pretty much summed it up.

 

[daleyd]

"The carrot has gone and it is out with the stick"

Banning ICE cars - is not gonna be an easy hurdle to cross either - unless every other western country in the world does it as well...

Which they are - different timescales but pretty much all have said that’s it. Personally I don’t think we will meet the deadline we have set, and nor do I think the deadline they set is right.

The countries phasing out internal combustion engines

The European Union approved on Monday a deal that will lead to the phaseout of sales of new fossil fuel cars by 2035, with a final green light by energy ministers due on Tuesday.

techxplore.com

 

[premmington]

I think you pretty much summed it up.

@MetalMonkey

God I hope I am wrong about this....

 

[premmington]

The labour party, when they were last in control - that chancellor with the white bushy eybrows - Darling, tried retrospective charges (based on emissions) last time they were in power. I remember it well, VED for my ZS V6 was going to go up from £240 to £400 plus overnight. I also remember being outraged at the illegallity of it, and considering parking said V6 in his drive and setting light to it. Anyway, someone eventually saw the light and dropped the charge, quietly and with no public explanation. Same thing applies to the proposed EV taxation - I believe it to be unlawful unless you introduce it on new cars, and again it will be ammended before the proposed changes.

Thats my feelings mate.

Not quite the vehicle burning in his driveway - but it is not fair and anything that is unjust should/would be illegal (if challanged).

 

[mike os]

@MetalMonkey

God I hope I am wrong about this....

unfortunately not ... the only thing I can see changing is them deciding to drop the retrospective application of ved as some kind of political sop to the masses

Vat relief will go to match other non domestic fuel duty too.

I would expect ulez changes as well.. back to congestion charges rather than air quality.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I reckon the retrospective will be dropped...but there will be no prior warning to prevent a rush to buy the exempt cars!

Tax on electricity for car charging I imagine is on the way...the smart chargers will probably have the functionality built in already I would imagine.

 

[prepman]

The Kuga has finally thrown it's hand in with a multitude of DTCs.(eng mal, awd failure)....and like the 'Grandfather's Clock'....'stopped short never to go again' 2/3 mile from home.
4 new tyres, rear brakes just re-padded. Running like a dream (now a nightmare) giving 46mpg avg. Brilliant exceleration 90K. No nasty rust.
But destined for scrappy....Hilux on it's way......no more Fords. Enoughs enough. Wife's C-Max had all this and was scrapped.

 

[My Old Landy]

The Kuga has finally thrown it's hand in with a multitude of DTCs.(eng mal, awd failure)....and like the 'Grandfather's Clock'....'stopped short never to go again' 2/3 mile from home.
4 new tyres, rear brakes just re-padded. Running like a dream (now a nightmare) giving 46mpg avg. Brilliant exceleration 90K. No nasty rust.
But destined for scrappy....Hilux on it's way......no more Fords. Enoughs enough. Wife's C-Max had all this and was scrapped.

We are trading in the wife's Kuga before it goes the same way they have offered £6k against a 2022 Mokka EV with 5k miles on it (£20k vehicle)

 

[voipio]

Since EVs are reckoned to cause sixteen times the amount of damage to roads caused by ICEs, because of their extra weight, maybe the EV VED should reflect this.

 

[ukracer]

Yes - sadly true...

Why though. It makes no sense.

 

[DanZac]

The Kuga has finally thrown it's hand in with a multitude of DTCs.(eng mal, awd failure)....and like the 'Grandfather's Clock'....'stopped short never to go again' 2/3 mile from home.
4 new tyres, rear brakes just re-padded. Running like a dream (now a nightmare) giving 46mpg avg. Brilliant exceleration 90K. No nasty rust.
But destined for scrappy....Hilux on it's way......no more Fords. Enoughs enough. Wife's C-Max had all this and was scrapped.

I'm not saying it's the case here, but having known a few people who've done the same, what's actually wrong with it?

Just because it's stopped , doesn't necessarily mean it's terminal, and surely most cars are worth throwing a few £ worth of diagnostics at. If it's an easy fix, you don't have to keep it, and if it is more to fix than it's worth then so be it.

But sending it for scrap just because its got some lights on (which could well be interlinked) without knowing the actual cause, seems a bit crazy to me.

 

[GRW]

Anybody that didn’t think that the government wouldn’t keep their take of revenue by hook or by crook is living in cloud cuckoo land.

People didn’t “fail to see it coming” - the choice is either to pay tax on an ice or have a few years of not paying it on an ev. The VED evens things up but the “fuel” cost is still, for now at least still pretty decent (assuming you can charge at home etc).

At some point though the government will of course reduce that as well - you are not some sort of all knowing sage for pointing this out - it was always on the cards.

Maybe so.... but the bottom line is the govt lied to you & everyone else.
This whole thing is just one of many that prove pretty comprehensively that there is and always has been an agenda, and that our "public servants" might be supposed to be serving us - but all the evidence proves they are serving other masters (the ones with all the money & power).

I said a long time ago this was coming, and also said (as soon as I heard it - which @Pigeon_Droppings2 also mentioned a few posts above) about the seperate metering for EV's.... you don't need to be a genius to see that this can only be to facilitate addition taxation & higher tariffs on the way for the energy used to fuel transport).

So, you're going to get shafted for extra Duty & vat on your EV charging just as soon as they feel they can get away with it.

And no-one should be fooled into thinking these are "new" initiatives. The govt will have planned all these extra ways to turn you over - way back when they first got behind the EV - these nasty surprises (which they will be for many fool enough to trust our politicians) we're all tee'd up and waiting to be fired off from day 0.... I guarantee it.

It's disgusting & despicable yes..... but I afraid those of you who were either ignorant or oblivious, or indeed aware but did it anyway to "save a few quid" - were the vanguard who have facilitated the latest, biggest rape & pillage job to hit the motorist.

I can see the direction. Tax the EV. Then under the excuse that the EV is greener.... hit the ICE even harder than now - drive as many off the road & scrapped ASAP... then they can throttle every last penny out of anyone with personal transport.

As @premmington says "Transport Poverty" (in fact just plain Poverty) is a-coming. It'll hit the lowest paid first as always... but once they can no longer afford any car (as all the good older cheap ones have been eradicated) - then the next victims will be the middle-income (yup, all those who could afford to adopt the EV in the first place - subsidised by those who couldn't afford one, natch).... will be next to feel the burn.

It's coming. It's just a question of when.