Down the 3D rabbit hole, maybe

[julianthegypsy]

I'm seeing a lot of printers come up on market place lately, both resin and filament, and I'm tempted (toys, do I really have to explain?). Anyway, I'm thinking I'd like to have a go at casting some simple bits and pieces in brass and maybe aluminium, and I had an idea that I could print the moulds. Am I dreaming, and if not, what should I be looking at, and what are decent machines to start with? I don't want to spend a fortune, of course. I already have design spark mechanical creator which I use in 2D. I'm looking at doing things like trivets with designs on them and small plaques, infilled with enamel then polished faces, if that makes sense? As usual all input gratefully received!

 

[ajlelectronics]

I'm seeing a lot of printers come up on market place lately, both resin and filament, and I'm tempted (toys, do I really have to explain?). Anyway, I'm thinking I'd like to have a go at casting some simple bits and pieces in brass and maybe aluminium, and I had an idea that I could print the moulds. Am I dreaming, and if not, what should I be looking at, and what are decent machines to start with? I don't want to spend a fortune, of course. I already have design spark mechanical creator which I use in 2D. I'm looking at doing things like trivets with designs on them and small plaques, infilled with enamel then polished faces, if that makes sense? As usual all input gratefully received!

The cost of the machine is down to you really. My preference was to start inexpensively (Creality Ender 3 V2) and improve it as my needs evolved. So I have now added a Swiss direct drive hot end, BL Touch leveller, twin Z screws and an enclosure.

 

[daedalusminos]

I'm seeing a lot of printers come up on market place lately, both resin and filament, and I'm tempted (toys, do I really have to explain?). Anyway, I'm thinking I'd like to have a go at casting some simple bits and pieces in brass and maybe aluminium, and I had an idea that I could print the moulds. Am I dreaming, and if not, what should I be looking at, and what are decent machines to start with? I don't want to spend a fortune, of course. I already have design spark mechanical creator which I use in 2D. I'm looking at doing things like trivets with designs on them and small plaques, infilled with enamel then polished faces, if that makes sense? As usual all input gratefully received!

Check out myfordboy on you tube

https://youtube.com/@myfordboy

He regularly casts in aluminium and brass from FDM prints.

 

[julianthegypsy]

Check out myfordboy on you tube

https://youtube.com/@myfordboy

He regularly casts in aluminium and brass from FDM prints.

Thanks, I will do just that.

 

[daedalusminos]

If you're going for more intricate parts - then something akin to lost wax using PLA on FDM or special resin for resin printers may be more suitable. I think the burn-out can be problematic though.

 

[ajlelectronics]

You are of course very welcome to drop in for a demonstration, anytime you feel inclined. GL2 8JP.

 

[julianthegypsy]

You are of course very welcome to drop in for a demonstration, anytime you feel inclined. GL2 8JP.

Thanks, that's a kind offer!

 

[Eric the chicken]

Is it possible to 3D print patterns as in old style pattern making, then use the patterns to produce the moulds then cast in the conventional manner?

 

[Agroshield]

Is it possible to 3D print patterns as in old style pattern making, then use the patterns to produce the moulds then cast in the conventional manner?

Yes. The issue is that whatever the surface quality finish is on the pattern will be reproduced on the casting and before that, if it is too rough will make it difficult to release the pattern from the mould.

Think of a traditional wood pattern and see how it is sanded and sealed before being used in the sand mould. You might similarly have to go over your 3D print with some glaze/finishing filler and give it a quick sand to make it accpetable. A lot depends on how much work you want to do to the casting afterwards.

Also, you cannot just 3D model the finished object. You have to take account of shrinkage. Outside features have to be bigger and inside features smaller, so you cannot in general just scale a 1:1 model.

As for 3D printing the moulds (the original question), that would only work if the thing you poured into them had a lower melting point than the plastic you have squirted out from the machine.

 

[julianthegypsy]

Yes. The issue is that whatever the surface quality finish is on the pattern will be reproduced on the casting and before that, if it is too rough will make it difficult to release the pattern from the mould.

Think of a traditional wood pattern and see how it is sanded and sealed before being used in the sand mould. You might similarly have to go over your 3D print with some glaze/finishing filler and give it a quick sand to make it accpetable. A lot depends on how much work you want to do to the casting afterwards.

Also, you cannot just 3D model the finished object. You have to take account of shrinkage. Outside features have to be bigger and inside features smaller, so you cannot in general just scale a 1:1 model.

As for 3D printing the moulds (the original question), that would only work if the thing you poured into them had a lower melting point than the plastic you have squirted out from the machine.

I actually meant patterns rather than moulds, and I thought that printing them would make it easy to set the scale to allow for shrinkage?

 

[ajlelectronics]

I actually meant patterns rather than moulds, and I thought that printing them would make it easy to set the scale to allow for shrinkage?

You can adjust total scale easily in the slicer. To make detail adjustments, you need to adjust the model in the CAD package.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Thanks, that's a kind offer!

Another point is that like you, I use DSM for CAD.

 

[Onoff]

Without reservation it is 100% the way to go.

Lots of info here on the attempts my lad and I along with @Kram 's input to cast horse brasses.

From our side we've done 3D scanning successfully to a printable model. From there we've produced positive and negative moulds including printed PVA ones that you fill with casting wax then soak off the dissolvable PVA.

Metal Melter

Looking at @Kram 's fire clay/element build... Thinking to: 3D print the inner of a mould with a spiral on the outside. Should allow the element to sit perfectly, In segments for easy removal. Then place in a large container and fill the gap with this stuff...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

You can see the end results aren't there yet trying to cast plumbing brass but it has potential.

As a total aside I went to see a chap I drink with. Known him for a couple of years now and he's local, close enough to nigh on be a neighbour. Unbeknown to me he and his lad built a propane furnace some years back and have successfully cast silicon bronze which he recommended over plumbing brass. He also adds a borax satchet to his melts. He's offered the set up to me for nothing but I'm really not ready to entertain that here yet as I need a better workspace.

 

[Onoff]

Worth a look through two of my Flickr albums ref casting. Note that none of the "brass" looking, perfect ones are actual brass but rather brass effect 3D filament.

Horse Brasses

Explore this photo album by Mustafa Crackatthat on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Kram's Metal Melter

Explore this photo album by Mustafa Crackatthat on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Onoff]

For brass effect and others you can plate 3d printed parts using graphite paint as a binder

Thanks but we want to end up with the real thing. Tbh the brass effect 3D filament looks amazing even up close but it's just a step on the way.

 

[Dev]

One thing I saw recently and hadn’t considered was electroplating and then burning out the PLA to create a hollow metal mould. No reason it shouldn’t work.

 

[daedalusminos]

And here's a good example of resin printing and lost wax casting...

 

[julianthegypsy]

So what's a good non bank breaking second hand printer to go for? I've seen a few Ender 3 v2's. Any good? Or is there a better one for £100-150?
I've seen all sorts of resin printers, but again I have no idea, not a single scooby!

 

[m_c]

I've only had a quick scan over the thread, but if your main concern is fine detail, then resin would be the way to go.

FDM aka Ender 3s and the like, are better for larger items, and a bigger choice of materials, but the print quality generally isn't as good.

 

[ajlelectronics]

So what's a good non bank breaking second hand printer to go for? I've seen a few Ender 3 v2's. Any good? Or is there a better one for £100-150?
I've seen all sorts of resin printers, but again I have no idea, not a single scooby!

My take on it is that resin is best for detailed ornaments, FDM for anything practical. Ender 3 V2 is very good and very upgradable.