Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[GRW]

The legislation will arrive.....shortly after there is some sort of terrible fire which causes great embarrassment and requires people be seen to act I reckon!

Regardless of the frequency of fires vs the number of vehicles etc...I find the risk of a self sustaining fire in a family car not acceptable. Theres enough evidence already to suggest there is a serious safety issue I think that needs to be addressed.

I suspect there may be a strong correlation between incidences of EV's "going up" & the energy density of the pack, plus the rate of charge.
It's reasonable to think a high-end, high-performance EV might represent a higher risk than a commuter model with more modest output & pack.

No doubt the very well-paid Actuaries that calculate Risk for the Insurance Industry will answer that one for us in due course.

 

[brewdexta]

So it's more difficult to put out, however be it ICE or EV, once its burning your not going to get back into either of them anytime soon.

 

[daleyd]

Stats tell a very different story - depending on how they are presented (& how /what data they include or leave out)

E.g. lets say that incident records indicate that vehicle type E goes on average - to account for 2 fires every 1 fire for vehicle type C

So you think "OK, that's not so terrible a risk if I choose a type E".

If however you then get the data added that says there is only 1 type E on the road, for every 25 of type C.... you have a very, very different picture.... as now the numbers suggest that a type E is not twice as likely to burn, but 100x more risk of fire if you factor in the pool of type E versus the pool of type C's.

(That's the same argument they used to trot out for the danger motorcycles presented - that while they were responsible for only a small number if road fatalities, proportionate to the number of bikes v cars, they were a much greater risk).

The stats used were “fires per vehicles sold” of ev, ice and hybrid - and ev cars were the lowest risk - by some margin. I know you won’t be convinced otherwise but you can fairly easily find the figures and data and reach your own conclusion. Alternatively you can hysterically shout “look, I told you!” every time something happens involving an ev, it’s really your choice

So statistically relevant, not simple headline grabbing figures.

At least one of the companies which looked into this and published their findings is an insurance company, I’d assume it’s in their interests to get the correct data.

If you can stick up some links to studies that show otherwise then great.

From everything I’ve read I’m really not overly concerned. If anything I’m more concerned about the myriad of plug in power supplies around the house.

 

[GRW]

The stats used were “fires per vehicles sold” of ev, ice and hybrid - and ev cars were the lowest risk - by some margin. I know you won’t be convinced otherwise but you can fairly easily find the figures and data and reach your own conclusion. Alternatively you can hysterically shout “look, I told you!” every time something happens involving an ev, it’s really your choice

So statistically relevant, not simple headline grabbing figures.

At least one of the companies which looked into this and published their findings is an insurance company, I’d assume it’s in their interests to get the correct data.

If you can stick up some links to studies that show otherwise then great.

From everything I’ve read I’m really not overly concerned. If anything I’m more concerned about the myriad of plug in power supplies around the house.

Daleyd. I know you're "Mr EV" (visions of a mask, a lycra bodysuit & a Cape) & a staunch convert & ultra-reliable Defender of the EV.
You can always be relied upon to leap to their defence (though if the product truly were as wonderful & safe as you say - you'd not have to, nor feel the need to).
You're happy with your choice, & completely satisfied with the safety & reliability. That's fine by me.

An EV is way too expensive for me anyway - but that aside - MY opinion is that there IS a greater risk over an ICE, and the consequences OF the greater risk are high enough to make me happy to avoid them.

That's just how it is.

 

[daleyd]

Daleyd. I know you're "Mr EV" (visions of a mask, a lycra bodysuit & a Cape) & a staunch convert & ultra-reliable Defender of the EV.
You can always be relied upon to leap to their defence (though if the product truly were as wonderful & safe as you say - you'd not have to, nor feel the need to).
You're happy with your choice, & completely satisfied with the safety & reliability. That's fine by me.

An EV is way too expensive for me anyway - but that aside - MY opinion is that there IS a greater risk over an ICE, and the consequences OF the greater risk are high enough to make me happy to avoid them.

That's just how it is.

That’s fine, I’m not trying to persuade you to buy one, just pointing out that the “facts” don’t seemingly correspond with the hysteria.

As you yourself have said, it’s always best to do a little digging of your own rather than blindly repeating headlines.

 

[GRW]

That’s fine, I’m not trying to persuade you to buy one, just pointing out that the “facts” don’t seemingly correspond with the hysteria.

As you yourself have said, it’s always best to do a little digging of your own rather than blindly repeating headlines.

Tbh - I'm not a news-hound. I largely avoid it (unless I'm specifically looking for something).
What I do get to see - well the EV seems to get a disproportionate amount of "negative press" (esp. given the barrage of positive propaganda from the machine).
I also have a friend (in fact more than 1 in the same field) of over 40-years-standing, much of his working life spent in the Fire Service.

I dismiss most "News" as semi-fictional drivel for the most part. However, my personal conclusion remains as stated. It may alter in time, dependent upon what the future brings - but right now I'm quite happy for others to be doing the guinea-pigging.

 

[daleyd]

Tbh - I'm not a news-hound. I largely avoid it (unless I'm specifically looking for something).
What I do get to see - well the EV seems to get a disproportionate amount of "negative press" (esp. given the barrage of positive propaganda from the machine).
I also have a friend (in fact more than 1 in the same field) of over 40-years-standing, much of his working life spent in the Fire Service.

I dismiss most "News" as semi-fictional drivel for the most part. However, my personal conclusion remains as stated. It may alter in time, dependent upon what the future brings - but right now I'm quite happy for others to be doing the guinea-pigging.

Ah yes, the old pro ev propaganda from “the machine”.

I mean it’s not like there’s other, large, very well funded organisations that might possibly be putting out conflicting “propaganda” to suit their own agenda where they would rather carry on selling petroleum based products?

 

[brewdexta]

Rare earth metals are used to refine petroleum and in catalytic converters, motors/alternators etc. This seems to be glossed over when the anti-EV brigade get going.

The Koch brothers were spending 10 million USD per year back as far as 2014 to discredit EVs to protect their fossil fuel business. Their main tactics were disinformation, cherry picking statistics and selective quotation so that it changed the meaning.

 

[GRW]

Ah yes, the old pro ev propaganda from “the machine”.

I mean it’s not like there’s other, large, very well funded organisations that might possibly be putting out conflicting “propaganda” to suit their own agenda where they would rather carry on selling petroleum based products?




View attachment 409868

Ah - the inferred slur that I must be a loony, because I have a different opinion.

I'll say it again (& type slowly this time).... I don't place any store upon the media or "news" (though far too many do). I'm very mindful that very little in the media is issued with honesty, integrity or accuracy, & generally to sell some agenda.

So here's the thing.... don't infer I lack intelligence or sanity just because I don't agree with you & your choices.

It's just possible that you've been drinking rather a lot more of the Kool-Aid (as our American Cousins would say) than I have. You're the early-adopter who's dropped £40k (or thereabouts) on an EV.

 

[daleyd]

Ah - the inferred slur that I must be a loony, because I have a different opinion.

I'll say it again (& type slowly this time).... I don't place any store upon the media or "news" (though far too many do). I'm very mindful that very little in the media is issued with honesty, integrity or accuracy, & generally to sell some agenda.

So here's the thing.... don't infer I lack intelligence or sanity just because I don't agree with you & your choices.

It's just possible that you've been drinking rather a lot more of the Kool-Aid (as our American Cousins would say) than I have. You're the early-adopter who's dropped £40k (or thereabouts) on an EV.

But you’ve taken what was misquoted at face value? And as well as that you’re actually a way off with your figures there by a large margin, and I think it was your good self who originally said you must be “rich or stupid” to own one?

I assume the inferred intelligence should be extended both ways?

 

[GRW]

But you’ve taken what was misquoted at face value? And as well as that you’re actually a way off with your figures there by a large margin, and I think it was your good self who originally said you must be “rich or stupid” to own one?

I assume the inferred intelligence should be extended both ways?

1. I've done no such thing. There are enough incidences of EV-started conflagrations for ME to consider them a risk.
2. I'm aware of enough detail on the battery construction & energy density to determine for myself that there is a risk. 3. That risk may not be statistically high, but the potential consequences are.
(C4 is very safe, but I'd not be happy to keep a few kilo's of it under the seat of my car either... & that's not such a poor analogy).
4. What figures? I've referred to no data.
5. I said that the "gamble" of spending the kind of money a typical EV costs - is the preserve of those wealthy enough to stand to lose, or those foolish enough to take a bet they couldn't afford to lose. You need to be more accurate in your reading comprehension, or more accurate if you're going to paraphrase.

On balance - it would be better if this exchange went no further.

 

[premmington]

1. I've done no such thing. There are enough incidences of EV-started conflagrations for ME to consider them a risk.
2. I'm aware of enough detail on the battery construction & energy density to determine for myself that there is a risk. 3. That risk may not be statistically high, but the potential consequences are.
(C4 is very safe, but I'd not be happy to keep a few kilo's of it under the seat of my car either... & that's not such a poor analogy).
4. What figures? I've referred to no data.
5. I said that the "gamble" of spending the kind of money a typical EV costs - is the preserve of those wealthy enough to stand to lose, or those foolish enough to take a bet they couldn't afford to lose. You need to be more accurate in your reading comprehension, or more accurate if you're going to paraphrase.

On balance - it would be better if this exchange went no further.

To gracefully withdrawer is the mark of decent chap - I applaud your actions!

 

[willie.macleod]

LPG fuelled vehicles are not able to travel, but I’ve never heard of a problem with them, maybe it’s political, they dare not refuse.

It wasn't that long ago a lpg converted vehicle took out 1400 cars and a multi storey car park building in Liverpool.

 

[roofman]

It wasn't that long ago a lpg converted vehicle took out 1400 cars and a multi storey car park building in Liverpool.

And a couple of horses iirc

 

[bricol]

Mount Blanc is 7 miles long, so everybody has to wait at the end while a single car passes through? I somehow doubt that.

Certainly wasn't happening when I and some fellow idiots/***** in Caterhams and the like convoyed through in excessively low gears and grin inducing revs . . . glad I was wearing the ear defenders wired up for the intercom/car to car radio
Plenty of cars, trucks, buses going in each direction

 

[GRW]

Certainly wasn't happening when I and some fellow idiots/***** in Caterhams and the like convoyed through in excessively low gears and grin inducing revs . . . glad I was wearing the ear defenders wired up for the intercom/car to car radio
Plenty of cars, trucks, buses going in each direction

Assuming your tour was post 2002 (when the tunnel re-opened after the fire disaster in 1999)....
Were your group allowed through & permitted to bunch up - or required to maintain a constant (& monitored) low speed, and a large constant distance between your vehicle and the one ahead?
If you were allowed to bunch up in a train - then the tunnel has had its safety rules relaxed considerably from when we used it.

 

[brewdexta]

Better add BMWs ICE cars to the list, the engines shatter and burst into flames.

BBC finds police BMWs at risk of exploding still on the roads

PC Nick Dumphreys' widow Kathryn says cars being used with the fault that killed him are "not safe".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[premmington]

Better add BMWs ICE cars to the list, the engines shatter and burst into flames.

BBC finds police BMWs at risk of exploding still on the roads

PC Nick Dumphreys' widow Kathryn says cars being used with the fault that killed him are "not safe".

www.bbc.co.uk

I am about as keen on the idea of a BMW for myself as I am for an EV.

-----

But when looking thru VW's website at new cars - choice of ICE cars to buy is getting smaller - it is!

 

[GRW]

I am about as keen on the idea of a BMW for myself as I am for an EV.

-----

But when looking thru VW's website at new cars - choice of ICE cars to buy is getting smaller - it is!

I think Suzuki are still making ICE cars? I never owned one myself, but in general I think they make worthy (if not thrilling) automobiles?
I certainly enjoyed quite a few of their motorcycles, while my sister had a Swift for many years that was a good little car for them

 

[Nomad]

Just saw an article saying EVs have been banned from Norwegian Ferries since earlier this year - it's not just the Highlands and Islands who see them as dangerous cargo @cheb

Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on board classic ferry route

Electric car fires are seen as too difficult to extinguish to allow them on board, according to shipping company Havila Kystruten.

ctif.org