Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[premmington]

Am I reading that right?
Your company has a stated internal policy to refuse to accept Tesla's plus certain other EV's in part-exchange for another Vehicle?
(Non-brand?? - does that mean any brand other than the Marque your organisation sells/is a vendor for?)
"Due to the downturn in value" - suggests to me that a used EV/PHEV depreciates very heavily?

(If I am reading your post correctly.... then I can't say I'm surprised, but it still doesn't cheer me up to have my expectations confirmed).

Oh yeah - there are carparks full of used secondhand defleeted PHP BEV/PHEV cars lying about unsold.

Covid helped move a few - because of new vehicle shortages - this saved some online dealers that were stuck with dead stock from going under.

But industry position is fragile - they can find new buyers - but not used buyers (but this may change into the future?)

The market moves and changes - nothing stays still....

 

[GRW]

Oh yeah - there are carparks full of used secondhand defleeted PHP BEV/PHEV cars lying about unsold.

Covid helped move a few - because of new vehicle shortages - this saved some online dealers that were stuck with dead stock from going under.

But industry position is fragile - they can find new buyers - but not used buyers (but this may change into the future?)

The market moves and changes - nothing stays still....

Again, I'm not surprised, but it's disturbing nonetheless.
Clearly, I'm far from the only punter scared-off by the complexity & potential losses.... of buying a used EV/PHEV then - which will affect the decisions of those considering buying a new one (as they'll stand to lose a lot more in depreciation on top of everything else).

Full circle. To try to mitigate & avoid the worst risks, punters (with no other options in future) will turn to leasing instead. This will of course make their motoring much more costly, but sidesteps their personal liability for breakdowns and later disposal.

But wait.... I can't say that because I can't just use common sense and extrapolate probable outcomes (though of course "Forecasting" isnt a thing, right?) - I need some official figures & reports

 

[atomant48]

Interesting to hear about tyre wear...I guess that's because of the added battery weigh?

I would have thought it was mainly the torque?

 

[atomant48]

@Ubique I am sorry old mate - but we are gonna get lynched on here!

But is it looking like the only two people who work on theses EV's here - would not buy/own one.

Please/please can the "eco gang" be nice to us

--------

Also remember - us full time/long term car mechanics are not new car buyers or ever will be! We also seen enuf of the sales reptiles to know renting a car on PHP is not a good idea either.

No lynching from me … I respect your insight and opinions and experience. One come back though … don’t assume everyone’s “good ideas” are purely from a financial point of view. I spend a lot each month (and have done for several years) to put my wife and kids in a “warranty” …. For several reasons. And to me although that costa a lot it is a “good idea”

 

[minimutly]

Hmmm, looks like my lifelong way of motoring is on the rocks then? I never buy new, anything from 4 yrs old to 8 is my area. Given that this ends up at sub £5k, it would seem I’m doomed, if I live long enough.
Buying a nearly new EV for reasonable money might become possible, we’ll see who’s right I guess?
Will have to run my old minis - on lpg? Or synthetic petrol? Will lpg exist?maybe synthetic lpg?...
Could convert the end of the workshop to a stable I suppose? Interestingly, I used to live in the Chapel house down the road when I was little. The room downstairs had a cubicle for the preachers horse - for when a travelling preacher came to visit - going full circle?

 

[My Old Landy]

Where can you buy a second hand EV? If they depreciate at 46% as I have heard, I would buy one

 

[premmington]

No lynching from me … I respect your insight and opinions and experience. One come back though … don’t assume everyone’s “good ideas” are purely from a financial point of view. I spend a lot each month (and have done for several years) to put my wife and kids in a “warranty” …. For several reasons. And to me although that costa a lot it is a “good idea”

I would always advise - running cars in warranty.

"The reason they sell new cars is old ones wear out" - it is that simple!

I am like most motor mechanics - are just are not new car buyers.

I may when I retire - have a few new cars - when I am likely to get more use out of them (give me something to wash down)

 

[My Old Landy]

Wow, a 3 year old Hyundai for £16k compared to the £11k we paid for a 5 year old Kuga that is quite good.
I am getting swayed to the dark side

 

[willie.macleod]

There's always a few sensationalist headlines around, in a nutshell prices went mad around covid years, spiked massively so folk were selling run of the mill cars for more than they'd paid for them after 3 years of use. Not surprisingly, prices have dropped to normal depreciation with increased supply and electricity rates.

Tesla, whose profit per car is in double digits unlike any other volume producer decided they'd lower their prices to increase market share. This not surprisingly upset car dealers who had secondhand Teslas in stock and were left having to take a hit as no one is going to pay more for a used car than a new car. The knock on effect was to cool the secondhand EV marketplace further which is no bad thing - prices just now are about where they should be. My entire EV and the equivalent sized PV home storage battery are the same price! I'd like to see where the car parks full of BEVs are...

 

[m_c]

Not many private buyers of anything sub £80k, most are PCP or some other form of lease. Most company cars are through lease companies, really big companies (or big car users) go direct to the manufacturer, Foxtons for example.

I would still class a private individual leasing a car as a private car, as unless they're also taking a full servicing package, they're still the ones responsible for the maintenance.

 

[m_c]

@Ubique I am sorry old mate - but we are gonna get lynched on here!

But is it looking like the only two people who work on theses EV's here - would not buy/own one.

Please/please can the "eco gang" be nice to us

--------

Also remember - us full time/long term car mechanics are not new car buyers or ever will be! We also seen enuf of the sales reptiles to know renting a car on PHP is not a good idea either.

I'd buy an EV if it suited my use...

We're now maintaining quite a few electric cars and vans, and we're not seeing any major problems.
Had a batch of low mileage Vivaro's recently with battery cell voltage issues, which Stellantis are sorting via remote sessions, as it appears to be just a config issue with the BMS. We update the BMS, take a photo of the battery label, raise a support ticket, and they give us a call to plug the computer in so they can do what they need to.

Biggest issue is we've now had an electric Combo sat for over a month, due to the body builders failing to tighten the main 12volt battery lead after they installed their additional loom, which lead to the traction battery getting a poor connection and welding an internal contactor. Stellantis have told us to strip the battery and replace the high voltage junction box, but they can't supply the instructions. All required parts are available, but nobody is willing to open/close the battery without instructions.

 

[premmington]

I'd buy an EV if it suited my use...

We're now maintaining quite a few electric cars and vans, and we're not seeing any major problems.
Had a batch of low mileage Vivaro's recently with battery cell voltage issues, which Stellantis are sorting via remote sessions, as it appears to be just a config issue with the BMS. We update the BMS, take a photo of the battery label, raise a support ticket, and they give us a call to plug the computer in so they can do what they need to.

Biggest issue is we've now had an electric Combo sat for over a month, due to the body builders failing to tighten the main 12volt battery lead after they installed their additional loom, which lead to the traction battery getting a poor connection and welding an internal contactor. Stellantis have told us to strip the battery and replace the high voltage junction box, but they can't supply the instructions. All required parts are available, but nobody is willing to open/close the battery without instructions.

BMW's do this - burn contactors down in safety box (SME) when main battery left to go flat.

Long job on some models as - battery has to come out - get to SME

 

[m_c]

BMW's do this - burn contactors down in safety box (SME) when main battery left to go flat.

Long job on some models as - battery has to come out - get to SME

That's just a rubbish design on BMWs part.

This combo managed about 300miles before it died completely.
I went out to it, had to use the mechanical key to get in it, put the jump pack on it, and still no ignition. Went to get out to check I'd connected the boost pack correctly, and the dash came to life.

Traced the initial fault to this quality installation-

Main feed to the under bonnet fuse box, which also provides the 12V feeds to the traction battery.
The bad connection had been causing the contactors to switch while under load.

 

[Ubique]

I would still class a private individual leasing a car as a private car, as unless they're also taking a full servicing package, they're still the ones responsible for the maintenance.

All the manufacturers I've worked for have 'dealer servicing' as part of the lease T's & C's - often bolting on a service plan to the monthly lease costs. IMO I think it's reasonable as you're only renting the vehicle, it's never yours so it's fair for the owner to stipulate a certain standard of maintenance.

 

[premmington]

I would still class a private individual leasing a car as a private car, as unless they're also taking a full servicing package, they're still the ones responsible for the maintenance.

I would not - it is still owned by a finance house - private owner only renting it.

Service package always comes with/built in to the monthly payments

 

[Ubique]

Am I reading that right?
Your company has a stated internal policy to refuse to accept Tesla's plus certain other EV's in part-exchange for another Vehicle?
(Non-brand?? - does that mean any brand other than the Marque your organisation sells/is a vendor for?)
"Due to the downturn in value" - suggests to me that a used EV/PHEV depreciates very heavily?

(If I am reading your post correctly.... then I can't say I'm surprised, but it still doesn't cheer me up to have my expectations confirmed).

Pretty much - only a Merc. dealer can accept a used Merc. BEV, they couldn't accept a used Toyota BEV for example, even though they have Toyota dealerships in group. The main drivers for this are energy costs, previous production issues worldwide pushing up perceived value and the proposed VED on full electric vehicles. Tesla's artificial 'value' didn't help matters, the company has global presence so I doubt it's just a UK/EU policy.

 

[Ubique]

I would have thought it was mainly the torque?

Torque is the main driver of tyre wear, the geometry of the vehicle is completely different due to the positioning of the mass (single or twin motors make a difference too), you'll find BEV's have edge wear that would be generally 'abnormal' on ICE vehicles.

 

[GRW]

Pretty much - only a Merc. dealer can accept a used Merc. BEV, they couldn't accept a used Toyota BEV for example, even though they have Toyota dealerships in group. The main drivers for this are energy costs, previous production issues worldwide pushing up perceived value and the proposed VED on full electric vehicles. Tesla's artificial 'value' didn't help matters, the company has global presence so I doubt it's just a UK/EU policy.

So.... its heading in a direction (it seems to me) - that if you've bought a "Brand X" EV - that when you want to replace it... that your only trade-in (& therefore ease of change) option .... is to chop it in for another Brand X machine!!

So that means the punter can't "shop around" among marques to either get the best deal - or because he/she wants to change Brand????

Logically, this direction means there's less/no competition to "Brand X" to offer the best possible trade-in price, or the best "cost to change" price to the punter - as the punter is effectively locked-in??
(Yes there would be the option to try to sell privately or to a "we-rip-you-off.com" company to escape to another brand.... but that's likely to result in losing even more money).

The more info that trickles through - the more concerning it becomes, as the less-&-less freedom & options, and the more & more expense..... seems to be what the motorist is facing - while more and more the "rent" (lease) future of cars seems to be the inevitable steered outcome.
After all, who the hell would want to buy a vehicle under those terms and conditions?

 

[Ubique]

A couple of things - not all dealerships of any marque are owned by a single overarching company as far as I'm aware, so you're free to move between Inchcape, Pendragon, Vertu etc. The restriction is (as far as i'm aware) restricted to a company decision by the group I work for - not any manufacturer, and is likely to be only an interim measure until the market sorts it's **** out, but that's not a decision I'll be included in. I don't think it's a restrictive practice as such, just 'the company' limiting it's exposure to vehicles losing value on the forecourt.
There are some JLR dealers that were only selling the L460 on the proviso that if the buyer wishes to sell the vehicle, it'll only be to a JLR dealer... This was a measure brought in due to production issues because of Covid causing second-hand prices to be inflated above new prices - how well it would stand up in court is a different matter!

 

[Robotstar5]

There are some JLR dealers that were only selling the L460 on the proviso that if the buyer wishes to sell the vehicle, it'll only be to a JLR dealer... This was a measure brought in due to production issues because of Covid causing second-hand prices to be inflated above new prices - how well it would stand up in court is a different matter!

Similar to the original Range Rover launch in 1970 where reservation papers were selling well above face value.