Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[m_c]

@slim_boy_fat the point @not done it yet is making, albeit in his usual blunt fashion, is that although hydrogen has the potential to be very green, at the moment the production of it largely depends on fossil fuel. It's either created directly from fossil fuels, or it's created rather inefficiently using electricity, which by and large is still produced from fossil fuels.

If we had an unlimited supply of zero emission electricity, hydrogen would make a lot of sense, but as it stands, producing it using electrolysis is only 70-80% efficient, so before you even get it in to a vehicle, you've lost 20-30% of the electricity needed to make it. A battery vehicle on the other hand will maintain over 95% efficiency getting fuel to the vehicle.

 

[reb78]

Will the uk being all EV save the planet? No, I think not.
Will the whole world being EV save the planet?? Don't know is my answer, but if it were to happen, there would be some massive holes in the ground I suspect. Ulitimately though, this is the question, if it were to become reallity (is this possible, is there enough leccy in the world?), would (will) global warming be reversed?

Maybe we will run out of electrons. Are they a finite resource?!

 

[DAPPH]

I've been reading about co2 being combined with hydrogen & a common catalyst to produce a liquid hydrocarbon fuel . Still in its infancy it's hoped to use it as a diluter for aviation fuel (4% polluter production ) and later as it gets cheaper as vehicle fuels .


Anyone else seen the article or able to expand onnit?

 

[DAPPH]

Do they not? I guess you have to use too many to make it viable?

Had an Aunt , a lay preacher no less , take it into her head that the big old apple tree in the gounds of the village hall next to her new bungalow was a nuisance. She went to the nearest ironmongers and purchased three pounds of 1 & 1/2 " long copper nails. hammered then in a foot up from the ground head to head all round the trunk , 20 yr later it was still there dropping inedible apples and leaves in her back yard .

 

[Robotstar5]

View attachment 402719

Wood gas powered bus, lots were around after WW2. The wood gas generator gave about half the power of its usual tipple.

I have a couple of tonne of pine an an old trailer.......

They had them on tractors as well....

 

[Roger440]

@slim_boy_fat the point @not done it yet is making, albeit in his usual blunt fashion, is that although hydrogen has the potential to be very green, at the moment the production of it largely depends on fossil fuel. It's either created directly from fossil fuels, or it's created rather inefficiently using electricity, which by and large is still produced from fossil fuels.

If we had an unlimited supply of zero emission electricity, hydrogen would make a lot of sense, but as it stands, producing it using electrolysis is only 70-80% efficient, so before you even get it in to a vehicle, you've lost 20-30% of the electricity needed to make it. A battery vehicle on the other hand will maintain over 95% efficiency getting fuel to the vehicle.

Which is wonderful. If we had an unlimited supply of lithium. And that getting it was a harmless process.

Its never black and white.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Given that lithium is in such short supply isn't it more sensible to encourage the car industry to make 10 PHEVs (or however many can be made) instead of 1 EV?

10 PHEVs will likely collectively easily do 200-300 emission free miles daily (given average commutes)...a single EV isn't going to drive 200-300 miles every day of its life.

 

[willie.macleod]

There is lots of lithium out there, more and more folk are coming up with new ideas for retrieving it at a reasonable cost both financially and environmentally.

Smaller EVs which are more efficient would be the answer for commuting rather than PHEVs but then you have the vast majority of the public who perceive they "need" a vehicle that can do 300+ miles before recharging.

 

[optima21]

or you could try and use coal for making gas.....as shown in this blue peter job

 

[Farside]

or you could try and use coal for making gas.....as shown in this blue peter job

I love it.
Amazing how old stuff became new again.
I'm flummoxed at the inventor claiming anything innovative about that, either.

 

[optima21]

I love it.
Amazing how old stuff became new again.
I'm flummoxed at the inventor claiming anything innovative about that, either.

yeah its town gas that they've created

 

[DanZac]

Smaller EVs which are more efficient would be the answer for commuting rather than PHEVs but then you have the vast majority of the public who perceive they "need" a vehicle that can do 300+ miles before recharging.

That is the most sensible thing in the entire thread. If we just used the right technology for the job we probably wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The average car journey in 2019 was 8.4 miles according to the national travel survey, which means there's not many trips that need a 300 mile range.

The question we all need to be asking ourselves is "Do you really need a 3L diesel SUV to drop the kids off to school / go to Tesco, or would a small battery EV suffice"?

I'll grant you that there will always be people that need bigger cars, vans, trucks etc, but if we got the people that don't need a behemoth into the right car then that wouldn't be such an issue.

Unfortunately though, all the time the car is seen as a status symbol / luxury item, then thats not going to happen.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906276/national-travel-survey-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi45qSm87L_AhW6SkEAHb-qD9AQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw2HwxV8X8dtPHcK7y_iGsDT

 

[redlig]

It might be that our conventional thinking of an engine or motor powered vehicle on wheels is going the way of the dinosaurs . Using battery & infra red power to push out a stream of ionized electrons might end up propelling / floating on an electron cushion vehicles able to not need hard surface s to travel over .

Was that a flying pig I just saw? Perhaps we will all sit at home wearing virtual glasses and just 'experience' travel and all that goes with it .

 

[redlig]

Yes we seem to be able to cock up road design over and over. I was up in North Wales last week, the idiots have planted trees allong theAberystwyth to Newtown mountain road - right down tothe roadside....

Recycling at it's best. They were the trees removed from another roadside because they constituted a danger and it looked good on the books to have recycled them for the greens.

 

[dobbslc]

or you could try and use coal for making gas.....as shown in this blue peter job

Wow that brings back memories! Is that a convertible Capri???
That gas generator in the back helps both the environment and stops the driver getting a speeding ticket by obscuring the number plate and I now know where James May got his hairstyle from.

 

[minimutly]

That is the most sensible thing in the entire thread. If we just used the right technology for the job we probably wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The average car journey in 2019 was 8.4 miles according to the national travel survey, which means there's not many trips that need a 300 mile range.

The question we all need to be asking ourselves is "Do you really need a 3L diesel SUV to drop the kids off to school / go to Tesco, or would a small battery EV suffice"?

I'll grant you that there will always be people that need bigger cars, vans, trucks etc, but if we got the people that don't need a behemoth into the right car then that wouldn't be such an issue.

Unfortunately though, all the time the car is seen as a status symbol / luxury item, then thats not going to happen.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906276/national-travel-survey-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi45qSm87L_AhW6SkEAHb-qD9AQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw2HwxV8X8dtPHcK7y_iGsDT

Whilst this post is sensible and easy to agree with, the issue is that even small EVs are not cheap. Make a cheap one and I’m sure it will sell in its millions. That still leaves a need for a comfortable mile muncher though - so you need two cars...

 

[minimutly]

Agreed that the largest of the EVs is not needed for the average user. I test-drove a smaller car that would have provided better range, and considerably better fuel economy, than the one I purchased.

While the smaller car would have been adequate for the two of us, I did not want a car with little/no option of using the rear seats - as they need to be folded down, out of use, in order to load the electric wheelchair that my wife requires (she is unable to propel a wheelchair and I can no longer push her very far in one).

I would have preferred the smaller model but needs must….

And what price was the small 2 seater?

 

[DanZac]

Whilst this post is sensible and easy to agree with, the issue is that even small EVs are not cheap. Make a cheap one and I’m sure it will sell in its millions. That still leaves a need for a comfortable mile muncher though - so you need two cars...

As an honest question and maybe slightly off topic but how many of us make these long journeys on a regular basis that require a "comfortable mile muncher"?

Personally speaking in a previous job I was on the road every day, covering a wide area but still only averaged around 20K miles a year (59 per day average).

Now I commute to work by bike (22 miles a day) and average 5-6K miles a year driving, most of which is made up of short shopping runs and longer weekend trips in my camper van, most of which are still within a 100 mile range of home.

I've 2 sisters that never go more than 50 miles from home (and that's unusual) and of the 5 people currently in the office with me today one commutes 60 miles twice a week, and that's about their longest journey, and the others rarely venture far from home.

I'll grant you we all do the odd long trip for holidays etc, but that's not an every day occurance. So do we really all need a "mile eater" or could the 90% of the population that only do the occasional long trip actually manage with a smaller, more efficient car (not necessarily an EV, but a smaller vehicle)?

Which takes me back to the point that the car is a status symbol, with a big car being a show off point and not a necessity, and until that changes we'll just go round in circles.

 

[Robotstar5]

<snip>

I'll grant you we all do the odd long trip for holidays etc, but that's not an every day occurance. So do we really all need a "mile eater" or could the 90% of the population that only do the occasional long trip actually manage with a smaller, more efficient car (not necessarily an EV, but a smaller vehicle)?

I'm wondering whether it's worth going EV as most of our use is about a 5 mile radius with a few trips up to 50 mile when I go to vintage shows, the problem is our annual holiday is a 250 - 270 mile run so maybe hire a "mile muncher" for a week?

 

[500e]

Saw a pedal powered electric 4 wheel van yesterday, no battery, went up a hill no bother, single seat.