Wood Stabiliser

[Screwdriver]

Can anyone recommend a UK product like "Cactus Juice" for stabilising wood?

I assume something like Rustins wood hardener is NOT what I am looking for but some other specialised product that needs to heat cure etc. Ideally something not too expensive! The only thing I have been able to find is Stabicure but that does look horribly expensive.

 

[Tangledfeet]

If I recall from my keener interest and following of woodturning matters a few years ago, Cactus Juice was used in conjunction with a vacuum chamber - I'd also be interested to know of a something more readily available and easier to use.

 

[DAPPH]

How deep do you want to impregnate the wood?
Alison has a paint on substance from B&Q (green can, 250 ml??) that she uses to stabilize rotted out on purpose wood on her bonsai trees . It's supposed to be for stopping rot on window cills but works well on her living trees.

Myself ...... I have been using epoxy resin dissolved in 90% pure isoproponal ..about 15 % isoprop by volume .
It penetrates well spalted beech that's almost too far gone to about 1/4 deep if I give it three quick coats before it dries. then let it dry and cure for a few weeks.

 

[Onoff]

It penetrates well spalted beech that's almost too far gone

Just shout when you want more...

 

[Screwdriver]

I may try that epoxy trick but ideally was hoping for a thermoset rather than a two part. If only because epoxy can set before it can respond to vacuum/pressure plus all of the epoxy will set and not just whatever is absorbed by the wood.

This would be for knife handle scales so quite thin sections.

 

[julianf]

I've been battling some spalted beech this week.

Attempt one was epoxy - just sat on the surface (I had not thinned it)

Attempt two was some water based commercial hardener. Soaked in fine but didn't really harden the wood. I think it was probably more to be used as a primer for filling than an actual proper hardener, even though it was sold as hardener.

Attempt 3, which is flawless but expensive, and will now be limited by my use of attempt #2 is ultra thin cyanoacrylate. Soaks in perfectly. Goes proper hard.

Downside is it's about £7 for 50ml.

 

[julianf]

I may try that epoxy trick but ideally was hoping for a thermoset rather than a two part. If only because epoxy can set before it can respond to vacuum/pressure plus all of the epoxy will set and not just whatever is absorbed by the wood.

This would be for knife handle scales so quite thin sections.

I would imagine (I don't have a vacuum chamber but I'd like to) that if you put a part in a "tank" of epoxy and then put it in a vacuum, the air would get sucked out of the wood, and the epoxy would fill the space it previously occupied.

If you then bought it back to atmospheric, and lifted the part out of the epoxy, depending on conditions, it would be unlikely that the epoxy would fall out and be replaced by air again?


The way I do stuff is not with a "tank" as that would take a whole load of epoxy, but by welling off the area with decorators calk (I used to use a line of hot glue but it's more bother) and pouring the epoxy in isolated areas.

This is what I'd like to do with a vac chamber, but I'd need to build an envelope one to take sheets horizontally. It would save me a bunch of time in the end, I'm sure.

 

[Screwdriver]

I have a vacuum chamber (needs restoration!) and if I was going to stabilise wood, I'd want to use that technique. I like the idea of the Cactus Juice approach where whatever you don't use in the process can be tipped back into the bottle and reused. Appreciate you would definitely want to keep the container as small as possible around the workpiece but the spare is definitely going to be waste product.

I might do a test and see what the volumes, potential waste and cost is like. I guess if it's a cheap epoxy diluted with IPA, it might not work out too expensive. Also will be interesting to see how long the mix stays liquid before it sets up.

 

[julianf]

Also will be interesting to see how long the mix stays liquid before it sets up.

Depends entirely on the product. And the temperature.

I put excess in the freezer. It can probably be maintained a week or two then. This is with a 2" pour epoxy.

The shallow pour epoxies set quicker. The deeper set slower. I think glasscast do a 3" one now, which will be slower setting time again.

Basically, the set is both temperature dependant and exothermic. This is why there are depth designators - to avoid exothermic run-away.

Ive not explained that well, but i cant be bothered to re-type. If its not clear, then say.

 

[Screwdriver]

Well I am going to try thinning it out with IPA so I don't think I'll be buying a posh version.

Poundlands finest I should expect!

 

[h-dom]

Keep us updated, I looked at getting some cactus juice a while back but bottles it because of the cost. If you can reuse it like they suggest then it's not bad value really.

I tried cheap epoxy but not thinned and it didn't do the job, but might do thinned down.

Also I have a diy vacuum chamber from an old pressure cooker and fridge compressor, pretty simple to rig up.

 

[Agroshield]

Does the cactus juice have a MSDS or COSHH sheet? That might give you a clue concerning what its ingredients are.

 

[Screwdriver]

Great idea. Didn't help...

Methyl methacrylate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turns out it does need a catalyst and it will go off after 12 months. I don't know if I'd be needing to make that much with it so epoxy/IPA is the way forwards I think.

 

[DAPPH]

I may try that epoxy trick but ideally was hoping for a thermoset rather than a two part. If only because epoxy can set before it can respond to vacuum/pressure plus all of the epoxy will set and not just whatever is absorbed by the wood.

This would be for knife handle scales so quite thin sections.

I used a paint brush to apply one coat then another about 40 seconds afterwards, let it dry for several day in5h egren house and turned of about 3/16 of outer wood , did a re coat as the first and managed to turn it down to an11 .5 mm diameter with a 7 mm hole in it
A couple of other 19x19 mm pieces were immersed in a capped metal tube for three weeks with a 25% isopropanol mix, then hung in the glasshouse for a month to cure. then centre bored though .
That worked well right down to 12 mm dia when it blew apart on the lathe.
I haven't used the lathe since then but suspect if I rough turned a stick 19x 19 x 60 to 14 mm dia and then bored it through , then super soaked it it would penetrate just that much better. ( project for winter when it's too wet for other hobbies. & a much shorter "Roundtuit / honey " list ) .

 

[DAPPH]

Keep us updated, I looked at getting some cactus juice a while back but bottles it because of the cost. If you can reuse it like they suggest then it's not bad value really.

I tried cheap epoxy but not thinned and it didn't do the job, but might do thinned down.

Also I have a diy vacuum chamber from an old pressure cooker and fridge compressor, pretty simple to rig up.

Picture please, in bits and connected up, if you would kind Sir.

 

[h-dom]

It's buried at the moment I'm afraid due to a big tidy up, but when it comes out again certainly.

 

[Onoff]

Picture please, in bits and connected up, if you would kind Sir.

@DAPPH , I suggested using a pressure cooker as the basis for a vac chamber over on either the metal melter or horse brass threads. Back when @Kram was making his out of the big bore CHS, same as I sent you.

As of late, clearing my Mum's place and there are I see a couple of pressure cookers destined for the skip.

 

[Onoff]

It's suggesting here that using an old pressure cooker isn't s good idea, as in unsafe. Seems they're rated for much lower pressures than is necessary for casting resin.

How to Use a Pressure Pot - Resin Obsession

How to Use a Pressure Pot Get help for working with epoxy resin

www.resinobsession.com

 

[tom2207]

I used to use two pack epoxy , and mix in about 15% xylene into it , that slowed the cure time down to about three weeks , depending on the weather ,,, but after the first application , just keep brushing on a new mix till the wood wont take anymore ,, I was doing double diagonal mahogany planking and triple diagonal decks ,,, it certainly tightened up decks ,,, and the hull was like glass ,,, slow going and not cheap but the results were spectacular.

 

[DAPPH]

@DAPPH , I suggested using a pressure cooker as the basis for a vac chamber over on either the metal melter or horse brass threads. Back when @Kram was making his out of the big bore CHS, same as I sent you.

As of late, clearing my Mum's place and there are I see a couple of pressure cookers destined for the skip.

You'd obviously have to change the sealing arrangement from leaking air in when evacuated to sealing the lid and the pan with a 6 mm flat steel plate & thick rubber gasket ..maybe in-between a clamped lid and pan body /