'Sand battery' could solve green energy's big problem (Allegedly).

[mart]

Finnish researchers have installed the world's first fully working "sand battery" which can store green power for months at a time.

The developers say this could solve the problem of year-round supply, a major issue for green energy.Using low-grade sand, the device is charged up with heat made from cheap electricity from solar or wind.The sand stores the heat at around 500C, which can then warm homes in winter when energy is more expensive.

Climate change: 'Sand battery' could solve green energy's big problem

A storage device made from sand may overcome the biggest issue in the transition to renewable energy.

www.bbc.co.uk

YT clip

 

[Parm]

Ive already bought shares in the Sahara Dessert

This time next year ............

 

[mart]

Ive already bought shares in the Sahara Dessert

This time next year ............

Article says cheap sand, Skeggy will do.

 

[awemawson]

Presumably it's only as good as the insulation surrounding the sand, and if the sand is being heated to 500 C then it sure isn't recycled polystyrene ceiling tiles !

 

[PhillipM]

I mean the sand will be a pretty good insulator anyway

 

[tom2207]

isnt it basically an economy 7 radiator then.

 

[optima21]

you have to wonder if they were trying to weld cast iron when they thought this up

 

[mart]

I mean the sand will be a pretty good insulator anyway

Isn't there sand inside some vehicle coils?

 

[Kayos]

I will try and find a better article, the one I have here is behind a paywall.

The original idea came from recharging the ground with waste heat for ground source heat pumps, this takes it in another direction

Is it the future? Who knows but storage will be key to decarbonisation

 

[piman]

Kayos,

there are so many ideas that claim to solve the problem of renewable generation intermittency but the proposers seem not to have done any arithmetic as to the capacity required. It really is a vast amount and is not going to happen.
Batteries are used for grid operation but purely for frequency support, i.e. a quick injection of power when there is a sudden deficit of generation or a surge in demand.
There is only one way to decarbonising electrical generation and that is nuclear, it's Hobson's choice. Will it happen, I doubt it, and ceratinly not by 2050.

Alec

 

[S-Rail]

I’ve got to ask are they going to use different solar / wind systems as currently they aren’t cheap at our end or any different from coal / gas / nuclear .

 

[julianthegypsy]

There is no magic bullet for renewables. The key thing is that its a jigsaw puzzle, with a lot of different pieces. The big change which will have to be embraced is that conventional power comes from a huge plant, which then distributes it, which is easy, whereas things like wind, water, solar etc will be generated small scale all over the place, and stored in batteries like electric cars, which will add storage to the network, which is more of a web than a grid. Storage is hugely important for solar, but really only needs to be overnight. If the wind blows while its sunny then the solar can supply the grid while the wind goes to storage etc etc. This will be the case even with small nuclear reactors brought in, but again, the power stations should end up acting as a stabilizer rather than the main source of power. There's a hell of a long way to go though, I've seen lots of research on storage, but virtually nothing on the actual grid yet, and in my view, it's key.

 

[Morrisman]

Giant storage heaters then?

 

[Kayos]

Kayos,

there are so many ideas that claim to solve the problem of renewable generation intermittency but the proposers seem not to have done any arithmetic as to the capacity required. It really is a vast amount and is not going to happen.
Batteries are used for grid operation but purely for frequency support, i.e. a quick injection of power when there is a sudden deficit of generation or a surge in demand.
There is only one way to decarbonising electrical generation and that is nuclear, it's Hobson's choice. Will it happen, I doubt it, and ceratinly not by 2050.

Alec

I have clients who want to decarbonise by 2030.....

Company I work for have plans for 650MW of storage over the next 8 years, plus all the behind the meter stuff. I can't say if it's enough or not

As ever, various markets are emerging so the storage may come at an artificially high cost, to repay those "visionary" investors

 

[Kayos]

I’ve got to ask are they going to use different solar / wind systems as currently they aren’t cheap at our end or any different from coal / gas / nuclear .

"Cheap" means purchased under something like a PPA or private wire agreement

Sadly for us, it all costs the same at the point of use

 

[julianthegypsy]

Giant storage heaters then?

One possible piece of the puzzle.

 

[500e]

@Parm I have a First charge on most of the Sahara so please speak to my people regarding any further use.
I am prepared to do a deal along the lines of Thames clearance we discussed a few years ago.
As the Gov are keen to push forward with this type of scheme I would think we can get some seed capital from them and the City.
PS
Do you want to be MD or Finance director

 

[Parm]

@Parm I have a First charge on most of the Sahara so please speak to my people regarding any further use.
I am prepared to do a deal along the lines of Thames clearance we discussed a few years ago

It’s fine, I was sharp enough to invest in other deserts .......

 

[500e]

We have second charges on ALL the others

 

[S-Rail]

"Cheap" means purchased under something like a PPA or private wire agreement

Sadly for us, it all costs the same at the point of use

I did think that “our” and “their” cheap is different things .

I just remember hearing all the “cheap” energy we would have from X and Y but somehow “we” never see or saw any of it .

I’m all for new ideas and concepts but the amount we hear off , but never , to date hear of very little coming through .

As for hearing sand . I’ve stood on hot sand after a BBQ and know it holds it’s heat for a long time , but curious as to how many KW in V how many KW out it is likely to return . Ie is it actually financially viable in reality or just another fag packet doodle