R-Tech Infinite control of welding voltage/amperage £395??

[jonh]

Hi,
Does anyone know anything about R-Tech Welding & in particular the R-TECH INV160?
Quick look at the spec and it offers a Euro torch and variable control of power with digital read outs for voltage & amps/wire speed as well as arc force control.
Direct from them the price is listed at £395 + VAT, is that the cheapest welder with infinately variable power as opposed to stepped?
Anyone got any knowledge?
Cheers
Jon

 

[jonh]

I see there has been some discussion on here about R-Tech but there doesn't seem to be any actual feedback from an owner.
I know there's also a lot of suspicion about Chinese made welders, but lets face it, what isn't made in China nowadays? even half the people who say they manufacture in the UK just assemble here and this is especially true of entry level machines.
Was hoping to get some feedback from someone who actually owns or at least has used one of these machines.
Thanks
Jon
Oh and just for the record, no I don't work for or have anything to do with R-Tech, didn't even know they existed till yesterday.

 

[GrahamGKD]

Jon,
There is feedback from owners but from a very quick look I think it is more biased towards the R-Tech TIG machines. From reading on here over quite a period of time now, my impression is that the R-Tech machines in general have a fair reputation but perhaps more importantly, also have a good reputation for support, which is where a lot of the Chinese made machines fall down. Maybe someone who has one will come back to you this evening.

Out of interest, is there a reason why you want the infinitely variable power et al.? In general an inverter based machine will never be as reliable/long-lived as a more conventional transformer based machine.
Graham.

 

[jonh]

Hi Graham,
Thanks for your response.
I wouldn't say there is a particular reason why I do want these features, more it's a case of if they are available in the price range why not have them?
As long as you aren't losing something else of course, everything else being equal then, variable power control has got to be better than stepped control.
Especially as I'm going to be working on a couple of 1960's cars where you have varying thickness' of metal used all over the place and sod's law says that the difficult bit that you can't get to properly is going to be somewhere between 2 of the preselected power settings.
Really it comes down to the features in the R Tech machine appearing to my untrained eye to be way above those of it's price competitors.
Either R-Tech are doing a great job of sourcing a machine and passing the saving on or they're skimping somewhere else.
I can guess which way most on here will lean but I'd like to hear from someone who actually has one of these units.
Anyway enough of me rabbling on.
Cheers
Jon

 

[Porschemaniac]

Hi John,

Firstly, let's be clear that I don't work for these guys either.

Speaking from personal experience, I recently purchased one of their Plasma Cutters.

True, it's clearly made in the far east but, nonetheless, the quality feels really good - a nice sturdy feel and very well screwed together.

Works beatifully and their customer service puts other companies to shame.

Based on my experience, I would certainly recommend them.

Cheers,

Ian.

 

[Charred fingers]

I can't speak about the machine your looking at but I bought a tig from them recently and though I haven't done a lot with it I am very happy with it. Their customer service is really good and my Tig came with a 2 year warranty.
No one as yet has flagged up any problems with their kit but it may be early days yet.

 

[GeorgeB]

I wouldn't say there is a particular reason why I do want these features, more it's a case of if they are available in the price range why not have them?As long as you aren't losing something else of course...

Transformer based MIG welders are very well established. It's interesting that there may not have been quite the rush to inverters as seen for arc and TIG welders. The advantage with a large transformer must be that a good one will potentially last decades. I don't think you could say the same for all the electronics in an inverter. If one component like a transistor, IC or capacitor fails, it's likely to be beyond economic repair once the warranty has expired. I would never rate the infinitely variable power control over the longevity of a transformer based machine. How many people have complained about the lack of power control on a Butters, Miller or Portamig MIG welder? I don't recall any. So, in summary, what you're losing with the R-Tech is potential longevity within the main power plant, and that's assuming the wire feed is as good as on the best, traditional MIG welders. Is it?

It also occurs to me that a traditional MIG welder has a discrete PCB for wire speed and non-live torch control. If that blows - and they sometimes do - then it's quite easy and relatively affordable to get a replacement PCB or solder on new components. With an inverter, I bet the equivalent circuitry is buried/hidden within a much larger PCB and would be virtually impossible to service oneself.

 

[aledafis]

Jon,
There is feedback from owners but from a very quick look I think it is more biased towards the R-Tech TIG machines.

I promised a write up of the R-Tech I-MIG200 a couple of weeks ago, but I haven't yet got around to it. - Sorry

I have the I-MIG200 in my school workshop, and am very impressed! one of the reasons I bought this particular machines is that it's inverter based, and I believe that it's important to be able to give my students a chance to experience different machines/technologies. The service provided by Dylan and others at R-Tech is absolutely the best, they all know their stuff, and are really helpfull at all times. In fact I bought a small MMA140 inverter last friday from them, and was so impressed at what this little gem can do, I showed it to my Assistant Head (I'm convinced that there's a frustrated welder somewhere deep inside his suit and tie) and he was also impressed, so he asked me to order the MMA160 to keep it company, that will be with me tomorrow (I also have an AC/DC 200A TIG that I bought from them last Sept., and that is also good)

I already have a Murex Tradesmig 245 in the workshop, and it's been going strong for over 20 years, and as most of you know, these Murex units are highly regarded. Having used the R-Tech over the past 3-4 weeks, I've been really impressed, it's now the machine I choose to use every time! The wire feed is super smooth, probably due to the massive wire feed unit and the fact that it has a 4-wheel assembly - I'll post some pics tomorrow. The power and wire feed controls are also responsive. It really is a pleasure to use!

Although I've no experience of using the R-Tech160, given my experience, I've no doubt that it's a really good welder. Give them a call, you won't be dissapointed.

Cheers

Aled

Disclaimer - My only tie to R-Tech is that of a very satisfied customer. They supply nice machines, and have the personel/backup in place to give peace of mind. What more can you ask of them?

Edit: Forgot to mention that R-Tech started off as a welder repair business, and they have engineers that can repair the electronic boards at component level, as opposed to the usual chuck/replace stories that we always here of these inverter machines.

 

[aledafis]

True, it's clearly made in the far east but, nonetheless, the quality feels really good - a nice sturdy feel and very well screwed together.

I've mentioned this elsewhere on the forum so I hope you don't mind me repeatring myself.

My understanding is that the machines are assembled abroad (probably in the Far East) but are built to R-Tech's specification, and this is the important bit. A lot of the components used in their machines are the same as used in the high end machines that they service, I remember Dylan mentioning Siemens electronics, and German wire feed units. In fact R-Tech have their own in house R+D dept in Gloucester, and I was told that the MD is usually found in his overalls in a welding bay!

The machines I have are also well screwed together, and feel like quality bits of kit.

Cheers

Aled

 

[GeorgeB]

The service provided by Dylan and others at R-Tech is absolutely the best, they all know their stuff, and are really helpfull at all times. In fact I bought a small MMA140 inverter last friday from them, and was so impressed at what this little gem can do,

Your feedback on these machines is very interesting. They do sound good, especially the wire feed unit from what you say. But, with the greatest respect, isn't it a bit like with a new car? - everything feels great and the previous car can't really compare. A few months later it might be a different story. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the inverter welder after, say, 5 years. Also, I suppose it's reassuring to have a good service department to fall back on but, with the best items, you never need them. I've hardly ever needed to contact a service department about anything. Anyone who claims to know the service department really well must have had big problems with the product, or at least an issue understanding the user manual, to need to contact them in the first place!

 

[aledafis]

Anyone who claims to know the service department really well must have had big problems with the product, or at least an issue understanding the user manual, to need to contact them in the first place!

My comment was regarding the sales service i.e. good advice, quick delivery etc. as opposed to the service dept.

I've only needed to contact their service dept once, and that was regarding a hose coupling, the part was replaced immediately, no questions asked.

Cheers

Aled

 

[Archie]

Don't mind George, Aled. He's our resident sceptic.

 

[aledafis]

Helps to keep us optomist's feet on the ground I suppose.

 

[matt1978]

It is true that in theory conventional transformer based machines have a greater life span than inverter equivalents but what George doesn't seem to realise that most of the new budget/diy conventional migs which although are the same proven technology, which is over 50 yrs old are no where near built to the same standard or use anything like the same quality components. I seriously doubt that most diy/hobby migs bought today will be in useful existence in many years to come unlike the real high quality ones from the 70's and 80's such as the original Norman Butters machines etc.

 

[GeorgeB]

The more I learn about these R-Tech MIG inverters, the more I like the sound of them. My ONLY reservation is longevity and viability of any repair needed, a few years out. So, at present, if I decide to go for a 'proper' piece of kit, rather than my old 'spares or repair' sourced machines, the choice would probably be between the R-Tech Inv160 for £395 and the Portamig 185 for £545. Why pay £150 more for a heavy, bulky transformer based unit if one takes R-Tech's comment at face value and accepts that "The INV160 has many benefits over traditional transformer mig welders, including infinite power control." Is the Portamig about to lose its place as the serious machine of choice for anyone with that sort of money to spend? I'm not sure that the difference between a minimum amps of 30A (R-Tech) and 15A (Portamig) is worth paying £150 more for.

 

[matt1978]

Depends on the application I think, that 15 amps would be useful if primarily welding car panels.

But on the other hand the Portamig machines you mention would be one of the better mid range machines that you could get a long life span from. My comments were aimed at the real cheap stuff and I ment just because its transformer technology, don't be fooled into thinking it will last a life time.

The infinite power control is a useful advantage but this facility really comes into its own on larger machines with bigger voltage settings. You have to remember that you are only talking about 160 amps. So for most applications 6 or so voltage steps is usually plenty.

Each to there own I guess, but I would probably go for extra features and benefits over and above transformer technology IF the build and componant quality wasn't there.

 

[malcolm]

I'd imagine in 10 years time most MIGs will be inverter based as TIGs are now. Inverters are much lighter, so material costs are lower and they are cheaper to ship.

The deal with TIGs is you tend to get more features for less money in an inverter, but they are more sensitive to drops, corrosion, etc, and a replacement main board tends to cost as much as the welder. So they won't last as long and they will be less repairable, but they'll be cheaper to buy.

Inverters have been slower to appear on MIGs, possibly because MIGs don't need so many fancy features. Most of the fancy technology going on with MIG tends to be at high amps - increasing deposit rate, penetration, and avoiding the globular phase between dip and spray transfer.

 

[jonh]

Just a point to mention but we need to keep it to comparing like with like.
As George mentions above the R Tech is 395 were as the Portamig is 545.
That maybe the same ball park to you guys who are used to spending a lot more on a machine but the Portamig is actually over 25% more expensive.
So surely it should be 25% more machine.
Would you slate a Mondeo just because it couldn't keep up with a Jag?

 

[Macleesh]

I'm not sure that the difference between a minimum amps of 30A (R-Tech) and 15A (Portamig) is worth paying £150 more for.

The £395 for the R Tech is plus VAT vs the VAT inclusive price for the Portamig so the actual difference is only £80.

 

[aledafis]

Here are a couple of pics of the wire feed unit in the R-Tech I-MIG200 as promised. Apologies for the quality of the photos, they were taken on my mobile.

I placed my blue marker in the pic as a size reference, the motor is about 3" diameter by about 5-6" long! The (4) roller assembly is a nice solid die cast unit.

Cheers

Aled