BE licence delay

[Justme]

FYI

The planned changes to the BE licence for the 15th Nov 2021 have been delayed.

The delay is due to the Gov failing to get the House of Lords to vote at all due to no factual data or safety impact assessment & the vote in the Commons was not conclusive again due to no safety impact assessment & that the law was being changed under a temporary path yet was looking like a perm change, when in the opinion of the house a short term suspension of BE was more appropriate to achieve the same goal.

This means that until it has changed you must still stick to the cat B towing limits if you do not have a BE licence already.

Towing with a car

Towing trailers, caravans and horseboxes with a car, including the weight and size limits, and what licence you need to have

www.gov.uk

 

[Bullet2012]

Are you saying the government got it wrong ?

 

[Justme]

Are you saying the government got it wrong ?

No comment I get enough **** in this group as it is.

 

[mtt.tr]

Nonsense.

Don't think it will make measurable difference

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Typical government, can’t even rectify their own crap laws properly

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Wonder how many folks have ordered a bigger caravan or trailer in prep and are now stuck being unable to use it?

 

[Richiew]

Cant let the plebs have any more liberty, they might get used to it...

 

[Tinbasherdan]

I still can’t understand how it could be a temporary change? It’s either changed or it isn’t, you can’t just go “wel guys, have fun for 3 months towing what you want and then we will take it back” it makes a mockery of any safety argument

 

[stuvy]

I still can’t understand how it could be a temporary change? It’s either changed or it isn’t, you can’t just go “wel guys, have fun for 3 months towing what you want and then we will take it back” it makes a mockery of any safety argument

I can hear the headline on the radio now

“since the law changed 6 months ago we have no more caravans on British roads due to all of the accidents”

fingers crossed it’s caravans

 

[The Artilleryman]

Wonder how many folks have ordered a bigger caravan or trailer in prep and are now stuck being unable to use it?

None. This cockup change will not affect many caravaners. Bigger caravans would mean change of car as well and most could not afford both.

As to increased accidents involving caravans, this is just scare tactics from those who hate caravans.

 

[highseas]

Wonder how many folks have ordered a bigger caravan or trailer in prep and are now stuck being unable to use it?

That was likely the plan all along, then they have paid 10k for a caravan and now •NEED to take the test, coffers get full win win and hand out fines for those that do not win win win

 

[8ob]

It does mention that the rules will change later in 2021, there is not much left of that.

Bob

 

[colnerov]

It does mention that the rules will change later in 2021, there is not much left of that.

Bob

Hi, That was the original plan but it now has this added -

"The rules about what you can tow will not be changing on 15 November 2021. The change will be introduced at a later date, and as soon as possible. Sign up for email alerts to be told when the new date is confirmed. You must continue to follow the current rules until the law changes."

Which just says 'later date' not necessarily this year.

Colin

 

[8ob]

Hi, That was the original plan but it now has this added -

"The rules about what you can tow will not be changing on 15 November 2021. The change will be introduced at a later date, and as soon as possible. Sign up for email alerts to be told when the new date is confirmed. You must continue to follow the current rules until the law changes."

Which just says 'later date' not necessarily this year.

Colin

They should remove the paragraph below , it just adds confusion

From: Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, and Department for Transport Published 10 September 2021 Last updated 11 November 2021 — See all updates

Applies to England, Scotland and Wales​

• Guidance for Northern Ireland

Contents​

1. Stay up to date
2. What you’re currently allowed to tow
3. What will change later in 2021
4. What you can do until the law changes
5. Driving a car and trailer for the first time
6. If you’d booked a car and trailer driving test
7. If you had previously passed a car and trailer driving test

Stay up to date​

This page tells you about changes to the rules for towing trailers and caravans with a car.
It will be updated if anything changes.
Sign up for email alerts if this page changes.
The rules about what you can tow will not be changing on 15 November 2021. The change will be introduced at a later date, and as soon as possible. Sign up for email alerts to be told when the new date is confirmed. You must continue to follow the current rules until the law changes.
The rules on what you can tow are different depending on when you passed your car driving test.
The rules will change later in 2021. The new rules will still depend on when you originally passed your car driving test.

 

[MetalMonkey]

Interesting to read the minutes of this debate

If you look at what was said, there was broad support for the changes.
Questions raised over the impact on safety appeared to centre on quantifiable evidence one way or the other, or the lack thereof.
The point was raised that there is no data to support that the trailer test made any difference to the number of accidents, since it was introduced.
There was criticism of the way the government had handles the situation and had not pre-empted the problems in the haulage sector.

All of which seems quite reasonable.

Interesting to note the comments such as

"We recommend that all car licence holders—that is, anyone with a B licence and not only those issued after 1997 and so impacted by these changes—should undertake training to safely tow and manage trailers."

"A more urgent issue with light trailers is the fact that such trailers are not subject to statutory annual testing. Furthermore, these trailers are often shared between friends and colleagues. In the past, I borrowed one and it collapsed under a modest load—it was quite a surprise. This would be a much more profitable area to regulate, rather than an additional driving test."

"The accreditation scheme is one of the other factors we need to think about when it comes to road safety. When it is set up, it will be targeted at everybody who wants to tow a trailer of any weight when, previously, training was very much for people who needed it to pass the test or tow a heavier trailer."

 

[Eric the chicken]

Registration, statutory testing, seems like another scheme to wring more money out of us. If there are so many accidents caused by badly maintained trailers publish some figures!

 

[GRW]

As I read it - for any kind of "work" type towing the proposed changes make naff-all difference in practicality?
Unless you have the pre-97 licence, the change limits you to a MAM of 4250kg regardless.
The real limit is the above total MAM along with the clause that the trailer can't be heavier loaded than the unmade weight of the towing vehicle.

So... example. I use an Isuzu pickup 2.5DD for work towing.
Online it says it's unmade weight is 2050kg. That means that the total loaded weight of a towed trailer cannot exceed 4250-2050=2200kg.
Take the weight of the trailer off the 2200... and it means you'll be lucky to tow a what, 1500kg load Max?

(My boss was/is convinced the licence BE award means a his younger staff can tow out plant like mini-diggers & industrial gensets. Which the Gov Website blurb says to me is not the case).

 

[MetalMonkey]

So... example. I use an Isuzu pickup 2.5DD for work towing.
Online it says it's unmade weight is 2050kg. That means that the total loaded weight of a towed trailer cannot exceed 4250-2050=2200kg.
Take the weight of the trailer off the 2200... and it means you'll be lucky to tow a what, 1500kg load Max?

(My boss was/is convinced the licence BE award means a his younger staff can tow out plant like mini-diggers & industrial gensets. Which the Gov Website blurb says to me is not the case).

For a post 97 licence holder without a BE test you would be limited to 3500kg MAM for car and trailer, so by the time you take the 2050kg pickup out of that you would be left with 1450kg for the weight of the trailer and the load - that means you would have to find a light trailer and possibly downplate it which would probably give you a payload in the region of 700kg. If you wanted to carry a high payload you would have to use a lighter vehicle.

For those with BE entitlement you could drive a vehicle with a MAM up to 3500kg, towing a trailer with an additional MAM of 3500kg (post 2013) or any size of trailer (pre 2013).
Which effectively means you can drive a heavier tow vehicle with a large trailer and payload providing you don't exceed the towing limit of the vehicle. e.g. on a post 2013 BE licence you could go to 7000kg for car and trailer.

So yes quite a difference as to what you can tow. However, if it is for work you are probably going to need tachographs, even when the vehicles aren't towing.

 

[GRW]

Ah yes... too much burble and not quite enough comprehension on my part.
So that means the youngsters in work WILL be able (theoretically and other laws notwithstanding) to tow 3500kg.
That might well get very entertaining - and I can see some "scenery interfacing" where a 4x4, trailer and item of plant end up in a pile in a ditch in the near future.

 

[RWD3M]

No comment I get enough **** in this group as it is.

Not from me you don't. Always appreciated your knowledgeable input.