One for the Industrial Electricians

[Johnnybravo]

What are the rules / regulations regarding working on industrial installations after hours when nobody else is on site? Legally would a certified electrician be allowed to do this? Reason I ask is the main power distribution room is in the corner of my workshop. There are 6 meters with heavy cables feeding the other 5 units on site. The “ Electrcian” whose Daddy also very conveniently happens to be the estate manager, gets all the electrical work. They are renovating a couple of units after the tenants went into liquidation. You never see the little git until near the end of the month, then he works after hours, alone. I’m getting pi$$ed off as on at least 5 occasions in the last 6 weeks ,I’ve come into my workshop not being locked properly in the morning. First time I thought,my bad. Since then I’ve been religiously double checking that everything is locked properly when I leave. Made no difference ,door not locked in the morning. So I changed the padlock. Low and behold I just had Daddy on the phone having a rant….

So, I would like to verify, can you work on industrial installations,alone, after hours?

 

[brightspark]

unless who is in charge says you cant and its against there policy your free to work on your own. i did 15 years of night time callouts on my own. there was only 2 places where i could work but wasnt allowed to take covers of anything live. all i could do was reset trips and had the keys for all the main switch houses. a lot of firms have policy of 2 electricians at any time

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Is there no notice time required for landlords and their trades to gain access.
Much like domestic where 24 hours notice is required?

 

[8ob]

Cant see how you could generate RAMS that would allow lone working in a factory. Where`s the Parmster when you need him

Bob

 

[dobbslc]

Tell him not to come after hours as he's not locking your workshop up, if it gets turned over and it wasn't locked you can guaranty it won't be covered on your insurance!
Also if he can't be trusted to lock a simple door he shouldn't be working on his own anyway.
Most companies will have a policy that says no lone working on live electrical equipment, it's one that even I agree with!
I test on my own all the time BUT I'm normally near other people so if something happens they can kick me off the wires / film me burning for YouTube etc

 

[gaz1]

I’m getting pi$$ed off as on at least 5 occasions in the last 6 weeks ,I’ve come into my workshop not being locked properly in the morning. First time I thought,my bad. Since then I’ve been religiously double checking that everything is locked properly when I leave. Made no difference ,door not locked in the morning. So I changed the padlock. Low and behold I just had Daddy on the phone having a rant….

So, I would like to verify, can you work on industrial installations,alone, after hours?

hed have hell to pay with me

tell him you have recorded evidence of him leaving the site left unlocked

hence the reason you fitted a new padlock

then ask him is he going to pay for the stuff thats been pinched on these occasions through his negligence of not locking the units door

make it very clear to him on the next occasion this happens you will be asuming that hes allowing his known thiefs to enter the property unrestricted and that you will be makiing a claim against his business insurance for loss of earnings and stolen goods from a locked secure property

 

[carbon]

I thought if you rent a workshop the landlord has to ask your permission to enter. If they don’t they will be trespassing. Not sure if this applies to commercial properties

 

[dobbslc]

Just a thought! It will also probably come under the Electricity at work regs 1989.

 

[Agroshield]

Just a thought! It will also probably come under the Electricity at work regs 1989.

More like general Health and Safety legislation.

A quick Google for 'lone working regulations' will find more than enough to amuse anyone.

Unfortunately, as Mr Bravo is not the sparky's employer, about the only redress he might have is to report him to the HSE.

Were it me, I would be reading the terms of my lease very carefully and reminding my landlord of them if his agent seeks to subvert them. Showing people footage from your CCTV set-up can help them to see sense if their recollection of events is limited.

 

[Kram]

I dont see how a sparky working alone is any different to a machinist. Provided he is qualified, competent and self employed he can work any hours he likes if the owner gives access.

A dispute with the estate wont be a good thing.
Put an alarm or similar with wifi connection, to alert you when its unlocked out of hours?
Then go and supervise him, and deduct your (out of hours) hourly rate from the rent.

 

[mtt.tr]

What does your contract say about giving access?

 

[brightspark]

. i have remedial work its ok working on your own but it is customary to inform people if you have to enter there building for essential work and give notice . i have remedial work to do in 4 flats next week and must be completed on safety grounds so tenants have been for warned of access either they stop in or give permission for landlord to open and let us in

 

[8ob]

JB recently sold me a vfd so he should be able to buy his own factory now

Bob

 

[mtt.tr]

JB recently sold me a vfd so he should be able to buy his own factory now

Bob

Are you steel reeling from the vfd

 

[J1nx]

I regularly work for one of, if not the biggest, electrical companies around and the site safety assessment allows lone working on sub 1000v (AC&DC) provided I get a signature that I will be observed on a regular basis. I’d imagine they have all the legal covered and probably direct HSE resources. This is anywhere, anytime for Callout/breakdown.
This company may operate a remote monitoring system, some sites we used ‘man down’ radios but now I guess it’s more likely to be simple mobile phone comms.

 

[Dave-sparks]

Whatever the rules or RAMS say about lone working is irrelevant as the issue here is one of rights of access and what may well be trespass.

Check your lease but generally a commercial tenant has the right to exclusive possession of the property and the landlord or their representative cannot enter without written agreement from the tenant at least 24 hours beforehand.

Check the lease for what constitutes written agreement in your case, sometimes they only allow written communication to be by first class post or hand delivery, others allow email.

 

[Dave-sparks]

i have remedial work to do in 4 flats next week and must be completed on safety grounds so tenants have been for warned of access either they stop in or give permission for landlord to open and let us in

The established legal precedent is that you cannot enter a residential letting without written agreement from the tenant at least 24 hours prior (except in a genuine emergency).
A landlord or their contractor cannot just give notice and enter the property, the tenant has to agree to it otherwise they have a case against the landlord.

I learned all about this when, at my previous house, my landlord let themselves in to the property without any notice at all.

IIRC should a landlord fail to comply then they can be ordered by a court to pay the tenant up to 3 months rent as compensation.

 

[Johnnybravo]

JB recently sold me a vfd so he should be able to buy his own factory now

Bob

Pity you have to sell yours to pay for the diesel to come and collect it ….

 

[Johnnybravo]

Think my best option is to have a quiet word with the landlord who I have known for 15 years and get on well with. My gut feeling is if the sparky wasn’t related to the manager, he definitely wouldn’t be getting access after hours.

I don’t have an issue with granting access to a competent person, ie one who knows how to lock a door. Will suggest keypad entrance

 

[mtt.tr]

Think my best option is to have a quiet word with the landlord who I have known for 15 years and get on well with. My gut feeling is if the sparky wasn’t related to the manager, he definitely wouldn’t be getting access after hours.

I don’t have an issue with granting access to a competent person, ie one who knows how to lock a door. Will suggest keypad entrance

One does question his electrical competence if he can't work out door locks especially electrical work being dotting i's and crossing t's