Energy Saving Light Bulbs

[Marty2005]

Couple of things I was told today that more knowledgeable members may be able to shed some light on.

Energy saving light bulbs should be left on 24/7 as the initial power surge needed to start/warm the things up will be far greater (if you switch them on two or three times a day). And apparently, to say that if no one left their telly on standby we could close down a power station (as we wouldn't need to power all those little red lights) is nonsense, as again, there is a very high power surge starting the telly from cold.

I don't know enough about electrickery to agree or disagree, but doesn't sound right to me.

 

[rtbcomp]

That bit about switching surge is rubbish, obviously there is a surge but I bet it's no more than 1 mins worth. Warming up takes a bit longer on a cold day, the lights in my workshop probably take 5 mins to reach full brightness in this weather, but that doesn't stop me using the light.

Not quite about TV's on standby but my PC takes about half as much current on "sleep" than it does running. Most of that is due to the monitor powering down.

 

[brightspark]

Couple of things I was told today that more knowledgeable members may be able to shed some light on.

Energy saving light bulbs should be left on 24/7 as the initial power surge needed to start/warm the things up will be far greater (if you switch them on two or three times a day). And apparently, to say that if no one left their telly on standby we could close down a power station (as we wouldn't need to power all those little red lights) is nonsense, as again, there is a very high power surge starting the telly from cold.

I don't know enough about electrickery to agree or disagree, but doesn't sound right to me.

tv and video on standby use a couple of watts per item and all ads up so a powerstation could be shut down and isnt nonsense. flourescents are best left on rather than stopping and starting all day long but for low energy bulbs it will be negligble

 

[piman]

Hello BS,

"tv and video on standby use a couple of watts per item"

Is that all, certainly enough "couple of watts" add up but it is still a tiny percentage?

And I don't leave fluorescents on all day, it's wasteful if the room is empty. Yes they have a surge on striking up but it is minimal compared to total consumption, much as an electric motor starting.

I read an interesting fact the other day, Wind farms need conventional power stations running on stand by, (Generating but not producing any real power, called 'Spinning reserve') in case the wind fails. Rather offsets the claim of nil carbon output when running windmills?

Alec


Alec

 

[rtbcomp]

IMHO windfarms will only come into their own when we can store power efficiently. I'd place windfarms near hydro-electric schemes to pump water back up into the resevoir, no problems with connecting them to the grid.

Or I'd have them electrolise water, use the hydrogen to generate electricty or sell it as a road fuel. The oxygen could be sold as an industrial or medical gas.

Hydrogen can be produced at 1 volt so they would produce some fuel in the slightest breeze and the complication of connecting to the grid would be avoided. The H2 would be piped to the nearest power station (or a local generator) where it can be used immediately or stored.

 

[Omniata]

Unfortunately a couple of watts added up over a few million tv's and videos is a few megawatts, ie: powerstation levels of output...

Same goes for the "small surge" quantities associated with fluorescents...


One of the funny things powerstation folk have to get right is the intervals in films on the tv, they have to set the stations to increase output just before to account for everyone turning the kettle on for a brew. Now those are big surges...
When folk at the tv centres get the timetables wrong it doesn't half cause hassle, either large areas black out or everybody gets hit with a massive spike...

IMHO windfarms will only come into their own when we can store power efficiently. I'd place windfarms near hydro-electric schemes to pump water back up into the resevoir, no problems with connecting them to the grid.

There's a plant like that in Wales but it doesn't use windpower to pump the water back up, called Dinorwig

There's a similar one at Ffestiniog

 

[Shox Dr]

My TV uses 150watts on stand by, as stated on the back of it. That and the Sky box uses 12units per week just on stand by,or should I say did. That was 1/8th of our total electricity usage as week, needless to say it's turned off at the mains when not in use these days

 

[piman]

Hello Omniata,

"Unfortunately a couple of watts added up over a few million tv's and videos is a few megawatts, ie: powerstation levels of output..."

Er not quite, power stations may be rated in Mega watts but their out put is far more than that. (My last employer, a medium sized factory had a maximum demand limit of 26 Mega watts.).

My point was that it is a fraction of normal load. I'm not quite sure what size television Dr. Shox has but it contributes to his central heating input, i.e power gives off heat. :-)

Pump storage stations like Dinorwig and Ffestiniog use the generator as a pump during the night (when base load stations have spare capacity) to build up their upper reservoir's level so as to be able to quickly generate power when there are peaks to cater for. Their output therefore is less than their power consumption. Yes windmills would be a good solution, but they still need to have the right amount of wind.

Alec

 

[Shox Dr]

42" plasma. It might well contribute to heating, but since we are not in the room while it's off, there is no point in heating it

 

[piman]

Hello Shox Dr.,

You say that, but assuming reasonable insulation levels that heat would remain?

Alec

 

[Sanny]

There was an episode on Mythbusters about this here
Basically they say you should switch you lights off as it consumes far more power to run them constantly than switching them on and off.

 

[Omniata]

Pump storage stations like Dinorwig and Ffestiniog use the generator as a pump during the night (when base load stations have spare capacity) to build up their upper reservoir's level so as to be able to quickly generate power when there are peaks to cater for. Their output therefore is less than their power consumption. Yes windmills would be a good solution, but they still need to have the right amount of wind.

Alec

I believe the original reasoning behind Dinorwig was to cope with the excess generated by nuclear powerstations off-peak. So that they didn't have to shut down which created more problems than it was worth...
When the nuclear build hit a drop many years ago one down south was abolished before it even got started

The other point was to cope with excess demand when required, quite clever thinking in its day, have a read... Dinorwig
I was always fascinated about the reasonings behind apparent "wastes" of energy when I was younger...

These days a lot of industry such as gas producers, like Air Products, produce off-peak to help leve this burden. Again though, these days due to the many more people about the burden isn't that bad...

 

[Marty2005]

Taking into account what's been said in this thread, I just had a quick Google to try and find the average cost of a unit of electricity. Well, you know how Google lists predictions for your search as you're typing? Well, just type the word 'average' into Google and see what comes top of the list!?! It's a funny old world!

Oh, all I could find was comparison sites, nothing which would actually tell me how much a unit of electricity costs.

p.s. It gets worse! Going down the Google list the first site I come across which actually talks about unit cost is a link to a 2 year old thread where they are discussing the cost of growing some plants or other. I go to the homepage and its a site for cannabis growers!!

 

[Jake]

i turn off all my plugs at night ( not frige) ele bill is about £6 a month

 

[Archie]

i turn off all my plugs at night ( not frige) ele bill is about £6 a month

You sure you're not Scottish?!

 

[brightspark]

i turn off all my plugs at night ( not frige) ele bill is about £6 a month

what form of heating do u use then and cooking ??

 

[runnach]

Oche Archie, tis a bit cynical no?? Switching off all them stanby thingies leaves a few bob to spend on Mercs, Porsches n stuff

Many a mickle saves a muckle as my great great great uncles Hamish once told me

 

[Archie]

Me. Cynical? Never!! But £72 would just about get you a Porsche floor mat I should think!

 

[piman]

Hello Omniata,

it happens that Dinorwig is close to Trawsfynydd nuclear station (closed down many years ago) and not so far from Wylfa Head nuclear station. However the UK is a grid system and all the power stations are linked. Basically steam power stations cannot start and stop at will due to the thermal effects and so run continually. They can throttle their output to a degree but they're more efficient at full load. Hydro stations can go from standstill to full power very quickly so are ideal for peaks (hence they are called peak lopping stations).

Alec

 

[oz.]

What people should do is to get a life and stop watching soaps. The amount of power wasted to create and watch them is unreal. All for a load of poo stories and people dying