Ridiculous number of fasteners!

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Now there's the clever bit, we were manipulated into thinking that that is what we wanted and now it's become the norm. It all started in the 1930s in America, surprise, surprise.

What we really need is a one size fits all car /van/truck that's the best it can be standardised
Then buy whatever custom bodywork you want to make it your own

Do away with 400 versions of alternators or fuel pumps

Unfortunately while it makes very rich men richer things won't change

 

[Alan Reynolds]

Occasionally you come across a design that is just brilliant. I found one many years ago and it was a printer that was made by IBM. The whole unit was constructed using easily seen, very substantial plastic clips making it quick and easy to service. The only screw was the one that held the print head. Conversely the computer company Apricot was born to fail. They designed the computer and then submitted it for production. "where is the power supply going?" "just in that space." "too small, can't be done." "Sorry but you have to put it there." Well the power supply was far too weak to supply enough current and failed frequently. They put a reset button on the side of the keyboard and operators would push the keyboard to the side and their machine would just keep resetting. They also brought out far too many models with just small differences. Nobody heeded the warnings of us engineers and the company failed. Always ask the people who will be servicing these things, they do know better. Our Bosch kettle is the worst design I've ever come across. It doesn't pour without dripping everywhere and a five year old could have designed a better spout with Playdoh. A classic example of "it looks good on the screen so let's make it."

 

[Ruffian]

About 10 years back one of my mates got hold of a cheap diesel mercedes A class that needed a starter motor replacing. After trying to do it himself, then going to several garages and being told "Engine out job, Mate" by all of them, He asked me to have a look. We did it on my drive in a leisurely 5 or so hours (without removing the engine).
Without going into details, If anyone here's asked to do a starter motor on a silver 1999 A class, Before removing the engine, check to see if it has a rather unusual (But MOTer pacifyingly OEM looking) black bolt-on inspection panel let into it's bulkhead.

You can do them by removing the gearbox mount and swinging the whole lump down "just". You will bleed and curse but about 3hrs.

And was the one and only I have done

 

[Wedg1e]

The machine shop we use for stuff at work always rip the stuff out of CADman... last year's monster gaffe was some sort of rod or linkage, about 12 or 14mm diameter with a section of thread in the middle. M10 thread. Yes, the designer actually thought you could screw something past the major diameter to get at the thread.

 

[Wedg1e]

Ah the Simca. I had an 1100, 1974 and sold it a few years ago, it is still taxed and on the road. Wonderful car and quite innovative in design. Also had Lancias. Nice but appallingly flimsy design on some parts and was made of iron oxide from the off.

The example I always use to prove how stupid things have got is the old Skoda Estelle; it was designed in a country under Communist control, to be serviced by the owner working in the street. One man and a trolley jack could do a clutch change in a couple of hours and an exhaust in 15 mins. The water pump had a Stauffer lubricator, and if the shaft seal failed there was a rebuild kit so you could fix it in the kitchen. And so on. Granted some of the interior materials were flimsy (the seat cloth used to disintegrate in the sun, probably not a problem in Czechoslovakia ) but the shells were fine, the engine did the job and I never had one that wouldn't start in all weathers. Back seat folded flat so you could take your chickens and a goat to market, the boot held several sacks of concrete which improved the cornering and best of all they were proper, cheap transport. And better-looking than a Lada

 

[gordon stephenson]

Didn't somebody in another thread mention certain Range Rovers needing an alternator change was a body off job.?

 

[Munkul]

Cars will continue to be horrible to work on, there is zero incentive by the manufacturer to design for maintenance other than the basics, but a whole load of incentive to design for cheap manufacture/assembly.

Some designs work out ok. Take the r56 mini, for example. Very tight packaging, but designed to have the whole front end removed for easy access to engine,gearbox etc. One of the few cars I will actually work on without needing my arm twisted behind my back.

Another example - brushed makita 18v grinder - a handful of well placed screws hold the whole thing together, and every part easy to replace.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Cars will continue to be horrible to work on, there is zero incentive by the manufacturer to design for maintenance other than the basics, but a whole load of incentive to design for cheap manufacture/assembly.

Some designs work out ok. Take the r56 mini, for example. Very tight packaging, but designed to have the whole front end removed for easy access to engine,gearbox etc. One of the few cars I will actually work on without needing my arm twisted behind my back.

Another example - brushed makita 18v grinder - a handful of well placed screws hold the whole thing together, and every part easy to replace.

My iveco v4 is a bad example.
Changing the egr valve/cooler
Gearbox out
Why hide a part that's going to block /fail somewhere like that

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Recently I was part of a 3 man team rebuilding a Dry Riser on a block of flats.

The 6" pipe and flanges was intact. But most of brass fitting had been stolen. So it was agreed to replace the lot.

Surveyed and a complete parts list was made.

32 Hose connections, with fixings.
32 Flange to pipe flange connections, with fixings.
1 double Fire hose attachment, with fixings.
1 drain cock and hose attachments. Metric and imperial fixings supplied.
2 vent valves, one metric, one imperial.
32 Out let panel doors. Most of the glass was kicked in.
64 Butt hinges, metric M6 fixings.
1 Fire Brigade door, hinges and lock.
32 Yale style locks.

On the coupling that were till in place. We found metric fixings and imperial. Not too bad as 19mmwill undo 3/4. But we would find 2 19mm, 1 7/8 and one odd one. But Never in the same order.

The door hinges were a mix of M6, UNF, UNC and a few M8 to boot.

The only things that were a simple swop was the Door Yale locks, one small mercy.

When it went back in, we fitted all metric fixings.
Well bar one. The vent valve at the top was an imperial fitting.

The weight of the tooling we carried up certainly made you feel the legs in the morning.

 

[Robbie260]

Recently I was part of a 3 man team rebuilding a Dry Riser on a block of flats.

The 6" pipe and flanges was intact. But most of brass fitting had been stolen. So it was agreed to replace the lot.

Surveyed and a complete parts list was made.

32 Hose connections, with fixings.
32 Flange to pipe flange connections, with fixings.
1 double Fire hose attachment, with fixings.
1 drain cock and hose attachments. Metric and imperial fixings supplied.
2 vent valves, one metric, one imperial.
32 Out let panel doors. Most of the glass was kicked in.
64 Butt hinges, metric M6 fixings.
1 Fire Brigade door, hinges and lock.
32 Yale style locks.

On the coupling that were till in place. We found metric fixings and imperial. Not too bad as 19mmwill undo 3/4. But we would find 2 19mm, 1 7/8 and one odd one. But Never in the same order.

The door hinges were a mix of M6, UNF, UNC and a few M8 to boot.

The only things that were a simple swop was the Door Yale locks, one small mercy.

When it went back in, we fitted all metric fixings.
Well bar one. The vent valve at the top was an imperial fitting.

The weight of the tooling we carried up certainly made you feel the legs in the morning.

Thats a situation when the engineers universal tool kit comes into its own, ie 8inch shifter, little shifter, pump pliers and vice grips. But of course i always go and get the propper tool for the job

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Thats a situation when the engineers universal tool kit comes into its own, ie 8inch shifter, little shifter, pump pliers and vice grips. But of course i always go and get the propper tool for the job

I didn't say if I used or not use the correct size spanner.

 

[nickk]

And what is it with these orientals with their BSW threads and metric a/f.
Did they buy all our old Coventry die heads,then think....ooh we’ve only got mm spanner’s.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I didn't say if I used or not use the correct size spanner.

If there not gonna be reused why not.

 

[mikegolding]

And what is it with these orientals with their BSW threads and metric a/f.
Did they buy all our old Coventry die heads,then think....ooh we’ve only got mm spanner’s.

That is not a new idea , pre war morris engines used metric threaded fasteners with whitworth heads.

 

[Ruffian]

Been working on the tractors again today and reminded me,

Imperial unc and unf on the engine and drive train but
Metric bolts on the cab and everything external.

 

[Spark plug]

One of the best I remember, was it the old Peugeot 405? To change the clutch you removed the gearbox end cover, slid the input shaft out the clutch, then dropped the clutch out the inspection cover in the bottom of the bell housing.

Now that’s what I call engineering, designing something with serviceability taking priority above cost.

 

[Ruffian]

One of the best I remember, was it the old Peugeot 405? To change the clutch you removed the gearbox end cover, slid the input shaft out the clutch, then dropped the clutch out the inspection cover in the bottom of the bell housing.

Now that’s what I call engineering, designing something with serviceability taking priority above cost.

Vauxhall cavalier and astra were the same. Can do a clutch in about 30mins with hand tools.

 

[Spark plug]

Vauxhall cavalier and astra were the same. Can do a clutch in about 30mins with hand tools.

That’s what it might have been, that long since I saw one, Cavaliers went out with the Ark didn’t they, excellent idea though.

 

[Cobbler]

I did the clutch on an NSU Prinz, the 1200 one many years ago, I asked about as to what was involved & got a lot of sucking through teeth & “I wouldn’t touch that” it took about 20 minutes, came apart similar to a Cavalier, but the cover was on the top. Open bonnet, remove cover slide out shaft, change clutch, fit cover & close cover. Brilliant.

 

[pedrobedro]

If you want manipulation, How about phones? Did you ask for a smart phone that needs to go back to the manufacturer when you need to have the battery replaced? I sure as hell didn't ! They say "We need to seal them for waterproofing and to give the customers the thin designs they demand". I didn't demand thin waterproof phones. I wanted to be able to do a 30 second battery swap if my old battery gave up the ghost. Waterproof? No, we don't need that. I see people having to buy a new phone when they drunkenly drop their old one in the bog as a sort of tax on idiots.

Phones were getting smaller and smaller till smart phones came out and blokes realised you could watch porn on them, now they are getting more like entertainment centres with 4k screens and mega megapixel cameras. You can get parts to repair most phones from somewhere on the internet and the tools to do it as well, I've repaired many iPhones with batteries and screens and you usually get a set of tools to do the job included. I know it's not just a matter of flicking the back off any more but they are not usually too bad just follow a tutorial on Youtube. I have only ever known one person who dropped his phone in the bog and to be honest it was no surprise it happened to him.

On the clutch thing I had a Datsun Cherry given me which had a slipping clutch. Replacement took about 30 minutes via a panel under the inner wing and a lid on top of the bellhousing.