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They don’t make anything in cast steel anymore do they? I’m gonna assume you meant forged steel? You think a good quality iron casting is stronger than a steel forging?
- Thread starter MattF
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They don’t make anything in cast steel anymore do they? I’m gonna assume you meant forged steel? You think a good quality iron casting is stronger than a steel forging?
Dieselman 63
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Spherical graphite nodules in ductile iron as opposed to flakes in grey iron make the former just as malleable and strong as cast steel. Original Record 3X vices were cast steel (pre-war) but post war they switched to ductile.
I seem to recall record used to use red paint for steel and blue for iron.
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I’ve got a blue 112P steel, bulbous screw end. I was comparing ductile iron to forged steel. Forged steel is stronger isn’t it? I still like the mass of a cast vise. I love the Heuer “front” vises and Ridge Tools F-series but they are super lightweight for their size.
I think you can get cast steel vices still
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAST-STEEL-8-INCH-BENCH-COMBINATION-VICE-WITH-SWIVEL-BASE-/292439257494
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toptul-Pr...331923784500?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10
Personally I would tend towards a forged steel with decent grade steel = European/USA Made than a cast steel version.
Yeah a decent forged steel vice size for size should be stronger than any iron.
If you need the heaviest vice you can get for a given size that is a different story a big iron casting is the way to go. For me the work bench my forged steel one is fixed to is so heavy weight isn't a problem. Mine is made in Italy.
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Are you sure those are actually cast steel? Especially the black one.
I chuckle when people on gumtree call any old vise “solid steel indistructable, good old British made back when people cared blablabla” “looks tatty but works perfectly” and then you look at it and the slide is literally about to break in half, no jaws, handle looks like an ‘S’ so badly that you almost think it was factory!
Yeah I know what you mean can you actually take it as guaranteed especially when it might be just a generalisation of a hard metal material.
Like cast iron gates made out of steel these days.
I have one of those old vice that works perfectly fine if it was a gumtree advert. In reality the problems with it are a mile long but I use for jobs I don't want to do on the decent condition vice.
CwazyWabbit
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Has anyone used paint stripper on a vise before? Seems like a convenient way compared to wire wheeling or blasting, and gets into the letters well. Is it OK to use paint stripper on a slightly oily surface? Also, do you know if old viaes could have lead paint? I mean the factory colour. The No.28 has some factory blue, and some green someone else has put on. Do you know when lead paint stopped being used? Is there any way to determine if it’s lead paint or not? I’m worried because this thing is so old. I’m guessing at least 40’s? (I know that’s not too old compared to some of the 1800’s vises, but most Records around are 50’s to 70’s)
CwazyWabbit, do you know when they discontinued the No.27 and No.28? The earliest catalauge that only includes up to the No.25 is 1950, and the No.28 and 27 can only be seen in the 1935 one. I’m guessing somewhere between those two?
CwazyWabbit, do you know when they discontinued the No.27 and No.28? The earliest catalauge that only includes up to the No.25 is 1950, and the No.28 and 27 can only be seen in the 1935 one. I’m guessing somewhere between those two?
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Et voila. Google is your friend.
https://www.bunnings.co.nz/3m-lead-check-test-kit_p00300909
Lead paint is gonna cause issues if you're removing it with machinery like grinders and breathing the dust in. A little probably won't kill you, like Asbestos - it's definitely not great, but the people who died of silicosis were the ones working with it all day every day. Cases of adults dying of lead poisoning are rare. Use common sense regardless of whether the paint has lead in it. If your work is going to be dusty, wear a respirator.
Paint stripper is a faff. It's messy and it often takes multiple applications to chew through old paint. There are lot of ways to remove paint though, and these are documented on both this and other forums - again, your answers are but a simple Google search away.
Asphalt70
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How I got my two banana shaped jaws fixed:
1. I made a fixture from 3 pieces of scrap wood.
Two upper pieces in same height as lowest point on jaws.
2. Grinded excess material of with angle grinder with 1mm disc (flatter surface). Used upper surface of wood to align after.
3. Last straightening on flat area of belt grinder.
It surprised me how hard the jaws were. I expected them to be hard mostly on surface. They seem very hard all through. We tried to mill them at first which was impossible.
Fitted it with new fine bolts in inch (which is not used in Scandinavia anymore).
Anyway, Record no.75 resque done, ready for another 70years of use (or however old it is).
I'm so happy
1. I made a fixture from 3 pieces of scrap wood.
Two upper pieces in same height as lowest point on jaws.
2. Grinded excess material of with angle grinder with 1mm disc (flatter surface). Used upper surface of wood to align after.
3. Last straightening on flat area of belt grinder.
It surprised me how hard the jaws were. I expected them to be hard mostly on surface. They seem very hard all through. We tried to mill them at first which was impossible.
Fitted it with new fine bolts in inch (which is not used in Scandinavia anymore).
Anyway, Record no.75 resque done, ready for another 70years of use (or however old it is).
I'm so happy
Last edited:
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What was the thread for the jaw screws? Is it BSF like the No.34/35/36? Do the screws have a long taper? A surface grinder would be the perfect tool. You should be ashamed of yourself for using wood as a flatness reference. You should prospone all vise restoration projects until you have a large surface grinder with an adjustable magnetic chuck and a AAA certified surface plate with appropriate height gauges and indicators. You must also use nothing less than a Moore jig borer for making the hole pattern when it comes to making your own Jaws. All the above separates qauity work from a hack jobHow I got my two banana shaped jaws fixed:
1. I made a fixture from 3 pieces of scrap wood.
Two upper pieces in same height as lowest point on jaws.
2. Grinded excess material of with angle grinder with 1mm disc (flatter surface). Used upper surface of wood to align after.
3. Last straightening on flat area of belt grinder.
It surprised me how hard the jaws were. I expected them to be hard mostly on surface. They seem very hard all through. We tried to mill them at first which was impossible.
Fitted it with new fine bolts in inch (which is not used in Scandinavia anymore).
Anyway, Record no.75 resque done, ready for another 70years of use (or however old it is).
I'm so happy
CwazyWabbit
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Your guess is probably right, I think that Record probably rationalised their product catalogue during WW2.
When it comes to removing old paint I normally just use electrolytic rust removal, it will lift paint from cast surfaces and has the added benefit of removing all the rust too
I've tried wire wheeling them too but found that you can have issues with rust coming out through the paint.CwazyWabbit
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What was the thread for the jaw screws? Is it BSF like the No.34/35/36? Do the screws have a long taper? A surface grinder would be the perfect tool. You should be ashamed of yourself for using wood as a flatness reference. You should prospone all vise restoration projects until you have a large surface grinder with an adjustable magnetic chuck and a AAA certified surface plate with appropriate height gauges and indicators. You must also use nothing less than a Moore jig borer for making the hole pattern when it comes to making your own Jaws. All the above separates qauity work from a hack job
BTW they changed the screw thread on the 36's at some point, the later ones have a coarser thread (still have the steep sided countersink though)
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I always thought of the older type as a ''shallower'' or more gradual taper, and considered the ''regular'' ones a steeper angle. You can call them whatever you want
I guess you're comparing the angle to the face of the cylinder, whereas I'm comparing it to the long axis.
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CwazyWabbit
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I can tell you what the P means (plain screw, i.e not quick release) ..... but I've never seen an 833 before
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Yeah I was just wondering about the 833. Funny how the seller described it as ''well used'', he had no idea!
But somehow he also said ''RARE!!!!'' in the title. I'm thinking if you know enough about vices to know it's a rare one, how can you not tell it's never been used, and has just sat somewhere and rusted?
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Well I sort of was the first to see...nobody else bid, I think because nobody else cared. Although basically unused, it's nothing special apart from the ''rare'' value to the few collectors, and the high starting price kept ''regular'' people away. Still puzzled how he knew it was rare, because he obviously didn't know much about vises. Although you'd be surprised at some people's definition of ''well used'' and ''needs replacing''. A few pages back, one guy posted a Nice No.6 which I would consider near mint, ignoring the cosmetics, yet he wants to get new jaws for it?It's in the same category as "first to see will buy"
EDIT: That No.6 not quite ''near mint''
but I still consider the jaws perfect.This Ajax is one sexy vise! (is this the only place I can comfortably say that without being put into the wired category for the rest of my life?) I REALLY like the design, along the lines of a 112, but a lot more refined and the jaws are really well braced.
(good job viceman!)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ajax-No-...484255&hash=item41d9a83679:g:-G4AAOSwhzRabFOv
Oh, and WTF is this guy thinking?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolex-10...971195&hash=item41da95ebf1:g:9rcAAOSw-Rhabv64
Asphalt70
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I get your pointWhat was the thread for the jaw screws? Is it BSF like the No.34/35/36? Do the screws have a long taper? A surface grinder would be the perfect tool. You should be ashamed of yourself for using wood as a flatness reference. You should prospone all vise restoration projects until you have a large surface grinder with an adjustable magnetic chuck and a AAA certified surface plate with appropriate height gauges and indicators. You must also use nothing less than a Moore jig borer for making the hole pattern when it comes to making your own Jaws. All the above separates qauity work from a hack job
Britt and danish humor are very similar...ie. Monty python was a huge hit over here.
The art is to make something good with less then a full machine park. Back in the days working as a toolmaker, I would have been able to surface grind it to +/- 0.01 or less, with one arm om the back. Making something usefull today without the fine machines are much more difficult, and takes a lot more creativity, which also has its charm.
Btw. my 75 are not a restoration project, its my only vice that I use all the time. I have to many projects - to little time and space to collect and restore, at least for now.
Imperial are not my native "language", but I believe its 5/16" bsw threaded jaws.
Picture from before cut.
I like the old design with threaded jaws much more then the new!
