Domestic 3 phase.

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Been niggling me since I started looking for a welder but still haven't had a sparks around for a look.

Looks like I have 3 feeds to my meter.

If that's the case how would I go about acquiring a 3p supply to run a lathe, Mill and any other late night eBay buys... What would be the benefits of running 415v 3p motors over 240v 1p with a 3p
inverter/vfd

Black box to the left of the meter looks to be for old storage heaters. CH installed at a later date judging by the pipes running around skirting and down walls.
Tya.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Do you have a photo of everything together from a little further back.
looks to be 3 into meter but just the red phase out of the contactor?

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

What I know about electrics wouldn't fill a post it note. Learning as i go. Does that help. Cant get any further away due to wall.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Ok it looks good, can you get one like this but square on so we can see whats going on with the henly block that feeds your existing consumer unit.

I presume in the past the property had large night storage heater or something.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Sorry. Couple of eBay items ended in the last ten minutes. Put silly high bids in and lost them both.

Pics as requested. Yeah the box with 3 phases running in on the far left is labeled to do with heating. No longer in use afaik. CH throughout.

Ok it looks good, can you get one like this but square on so we can see whats going on with the henly block that feeds your existing consumer unit.
View attachment 123217
I presume in the past the property had large night storage heater or something.

 

[WorkshopChris]

From that it looks as if you are in the very lucky position of having a 3 phase head and meter.
The problem is i have absolutely no idea how the contactor and timer are configured.
The contactor looks to have a dno label on so maybe there property.
Should be a simple job to add a small 3 phase board, you may be able to come out of the contactor if the timer has a override.

Your best bet would be a old school local electrician who would off had experience of that type of instal when originally fitted.
Most domestic sparks don't have any experience of this set up.
Not sure if @Kayos may have any info from his metering days.

Its not going to cost a lot in bits, just needs some more research.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Thanks for taking the time to look Chris. Had a suspicion it might be feasible but never got around to following it up. I'll have a chat to the spark I met on a job recently. See if he or someone he knows can help.
Get a 16amp supply for the welder put in while there here too

 

[brightspark]

for a kick off get the off peak meter removed your paying for the rental of the equipment fit a 4 way 3 phase db with new meter tails and wire your sockets from there . get the electricity board to connect the new tails in and remove obsolete gear

 

[500e]

Looks like economy 7, 3pase + neutral.
One of the sensible things I did when we built the house was a 3 phase supply, we had Ec7 but was in a single phase meter & timer, the lecy heating was not a good idea though, got rid of it very quickly,

 

[wristpin]

I've got 3ph in the house from a long redundant storage heater system - but not in the garage 25m away where it could be useful!

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Thankfully my incoming supply is in the garage less than 4m to get to the machines in question.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

for a kick off get the off peak meter removed your paying for the rental of the equipment fit a 4 way 3 phase db with new meter tails and wire your sockets from there . get the electricity board to connect the new tails in and remove obsolete gear

Guessing the 4 way board would replace the current db and supply the 1p house and 3p garage from separate rails in the same unit? Or a separate unit for the garage 1+3p?
I'll have a nosey at my bill. We took over the current provider when we moved in. Don't believe were on e7 and there combining readings. I'll check.

Won't be undertaking myself. Don't consider myself competent.
I'll pick there brains as much as possible while there on site for future reference.

 

[brightspark]

leave the existing single phase db as is and fit a separate 3 phase board

 

[Richiew]

Jammy so and so. All those cheap 2nd hand three phase welders out there. The world's your oyster. I am so envious. I use three phase welders at night school. They are top of the range but I'm sure the 3 phase supply helps enormously too.

 

[WorkshopChris]

It all depends on your local network condition and connection but I would be cautious of asking too many questions to the DNO, unless you need to involve them or you are presently paying a very high rate presently.
In this area, the network is stretched and they are asking lots of questions about newly connected loads and are trying to downrate supplies when possible.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Cheers for all the advice. Won't be happening quickly but I'd been toying with the idea of inverters and 3p motors for the lathe and mill for a while. The above makes it a far more enticing prospect.

Couple of 3p vfds and motors and there in business.

Can foresee some frustrating phone conversations in the near future.

I'll try the DNO. Or not^^^°°°

First port of call a sparks on site.

 

[frank horton]

mines a 40amp, 3phase supply, seems more than enough.......a friend in Essex was asking the same questions about tidying up his 3phase supply........basically the elec supplier wanted to remove it and just go single phase........
he did manage to keep the 3phase but there were a lot of threats either way.......be carefull out there.......
my next house will be decided if 3 phase is there or can be connected........not gonna go the rotary inverter route.........once u've had it (3phase) u never wanna go back.........hahaha.........
Frank

 

[WorkshopChris]

a friend in Essex was asking the same questions about tidying up his 3phase supply........basically the elec supplier wanted to remove it and just go single phase........

That doesn't surprise me, they don't want any additional load on the supply especially welders and motors with start peaks, much better if you wanted it just for a ground source heat pump if you have to fill any paperwork in. I looked and asked a few unofficial questions to a few uk power guys looks like if it went 3p i would lose the 80a single and have 40a 3p&n. its not worth the loss of the heave single phase supply.
We are on overheads hear in the village. 4 bare copper they are slowly upgrading to insulated wire.

 

[brightspark]

all this doom and gloom u already have the 3 phase supply which will be 60 amp minimum for nightstore heaters just tell em your changing to day rate panel heaters give them a loading requirement and need the 3 phase for a couple of small motors and that's it .they wont down rate nothing and wont refuse u it

 

[knighty]

personally... I'd just add in a small box with a 3 phase rcd/mcb/whatever is required these days

run a wire from that to your garage, and a 3 phase fuse box there


then just phone up the DNO and tell them you have a new fuse box and need the meter tails connecting/moving (because you're not alowed to do that yourself)

if you want to swap to a normal meter, tell them that at the same time - normal meter + tails to new fuse box instead of timer meter please
(does it actually matter what kind of meter he has? - just because he has an E7 type meter he can still be on a normal tariff? - check your bill OP?)


no need to tell them you're going to start using 3 phase or going into detail at all... and the guy who comes to do it won't care

anything else just makes things more complicated