Outer sill connection

  1. raveboy2012

    raveboy2012 VW Dude - (Virgin Welder)

    Hey guys, Just started cutting out the rusty sill on my escort 55 van. Got a new sill to replace it but the question I wanted to ask was, how is the lower part of the sill flange fixed to the bottom of the centre and inner sill ? I cut it off just above the lip and so still need to remove the remaining lower part of the outer lip. Would it have been spot welded ?

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Looks like I'll have to patch the centre sill as well. Any thoughts or comments welcome,

    Cheers
    Raver :clapping:
  2. Wozzaaah

    Wozzaaah The wizard of woz Staff Member

    Yes, it will be spot welded.
  3. zardoz

    zardoz Old school Socialist

    Posts: 2,214
    Chetser, UK
    IMHO: You might be better off chiselling that bottom flange off all together, and spot welding/plug welding on to the inner sill like it was in the factory. Certainly if you are spot welding, as the old sill flange will be at least twice as thick as the new one its being welded too, which makes for a weak spot weld. (A spot weld melts from the centre outwards)
  4. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

    Posts: 2,169
    south yorks
    Sill

    you might find that the inner sill is us by the time you clean it all up so you may have to make up an inner sill but as you are only fitting a part sill it will have to be fully welded not spot welded for the MOT
    if you fit a complete full sill that can be spot welded as factory
  5. zardoz

    zardoz Old school Socialist

    Posts: 2,214
    Chetser, UK
    Ah yes, I stand corrected. Part sills have to be fully welded. You can do this whatever way you feel most comfortable with. Whether its by putting a 'step' in the new part, and lap welding it, or go for it and butt weld it. Maybe doing a back stitch butt weld will be the way to go here.
  6. raveboy2012

    raveboy2012 VW Dude - (Virgin Welder)

    Ahh thanks for the thoughts guys and the heads up on the full weld for the MOT. Think I will do as you say and chisel/cut off the remaining flange and then do a full butt weld. I want it to look as smooth as poss with no apparent join (Even though it's a van), So i'll progressively stitch it and then grind back I think.

    Cheers
    Raver :-)
  7. atomant48

    atomant48 Forum Supporter

    Posts: 176
    Salisbury UK
    Slight thread hijack, but would be great to clarify for this thread as well...I have removed the inner sill completely on a project and am attaching a new lower section to it (fully seam welded) before re-fitting the inner sill and then a brand new outer sill. I am planning to "only" spot weld during the re-fitment as i consider the new lower section patch to restore it to a full part and that complies with how i read the MOT guidance.

    Could anyone more experienced than me comment on whether that complies?

    (If you were wondering, having gone to the trouble of removing the inner sill, why not......no they are not available.)
  8. Wozzaaah

    Wozzaaah The wizard of woz Staff Member

    I've lost count of the number of imes we've discussed this on here but yes, even if patching a sill you can use spot/plug welds where spot welds were originally used providing you've removed all of the defective panel in the area you intend to spot/plug weld.
    All other joints must be fully seam welded.
    The tester's manual is very clearly worded. ;)
  9. atomant48

    atomant48 Forum Supporter

    Posts: 176
    Salisbury UK
    OK cool.:cool:
  10. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

    Posts: 2,169
    south yorks
  11. Wozzaaah

    Wozzaaah The wizard of woz Staff Member

    Not if you're spot welding where spot welds originally were, as long as you follow what the manual says.
    Patch or full panel, makes no difference, the wording is clear. ;)
  12. raveboy2012

    raveboy2012 VW Dude - (Virgin Welder)

    Thanks for replies guys, Had to cut some of the central cill out tonight as that was shagged as well. I'll try and most some of my progress up when the light is better tomorrow.
    Have to say though, it's a bit addictive taking the cutting disc to your car body
    :D, and looking forward to laying in some nice fresh metal :welder:

    Cheers
    raver
  13. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Posts: 1,774
    uk Bristol
    Raver be aware that the carpets and seat will be close to the welding when doing the inner sill. Bucket of water and damp cloths at the ready and if possible a fire watcher.
  14. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Posts: 1,774
    uk Bristol
    ps wires to rear of car + brake pipes + fuel pipes. Check for them all and good luck with the welding.
  15. raveboy2012

    raveboy2012 VW Dude - (Virgin Welder)

    Thanks Mike, yes i'll prop everything out of the way and I have an extinguisher on hand - Is a bucket of sand a good idea as well ? Looking at what I have cut out I think that the inner sill is ok and it's just part of the central and outer sills that I need to replace. see below

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    need to cut a bit more of the rot back and then start re-constructing the central sill.

    Cheers
    Raver
  16. super noob Member

    Posts: 496
    Cumbria
    may as well put some underseal in there while you're at it :p



    thats rustier than my 1973 series 3 :o
  17. raveboy2012

    raveboy2012 VW Dude - (Virgin Welder)

    Hey Noob, yeah the previous collection of owners had just patched it with **** repairs- hence the water still got in and had a metal breakfast !! Hopefully I can re-instate it to a reasonable standard :-)
  18. super noob Member

    Posts: 496
    Cumbria
    good luck haha, sills are a ****** to do which is why I just rip them out and fit big box section that doesn't rust in a couple of years :D


    always a pain finding someone else's bodges
  19. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Posts: 1,774
    uk Bristol
    Ref the sand, not a bad ideal as you can just dump it on any fire without worring about water everywhere. If when grinding back you can keep the pressed out squares area then all the better as the pressing shape has added strength to that area assuming no rust! Blocked drain holes help the rust grow so worth cleaning them out using a hacksaw blade. They shoul be along the bottom edge about 1" wide slits.
  20. normspanners Forum Supporter

    Posts: 2,007
    northwales
    Wozzaaah is right, spots or plugs or stitch where spots where originally, thing is brazeing isnt allowed but some joints are brazed as standard ??
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