Are 6013's any good for vertical up practice?

  1. SiPMerlin150

    SiPMerlin150 Member

    Hello welding guru's!

    I'm (hopefully) going to begin a 50 hour course at a local college for arc welding, in hope of a certificate levels 1 & 2 (Meaning i can produce a weld of a british standard, spot inconsistancies and bad parts of welds and possibly correct them, also learning safety and show knowledge of what power settings to use with what rods and metal thickness's etc)

    I'm not too sure if a vertical up weld would be included in this course, i would like to begin practice for this, but problem is, I've heard 7018's are best, but i have a pack of lincoln conarc 49c lo-hi's and they hate AC 50v.... All i have is 6013's 2.5 and 3.2's....will these be to slow freezing to use?

    I know 7018's are quick freezing and i've baked my lo hi's into oblivion hoping that moisture is causing the problems, but its more to to with lack of DC and low ocv.. :(
  2. snowcat

    snowcat back in black Staff Member

    6013s by defenition are all positional rodes (except downhand) AWS No.s are very broad in and dont really give a very descrivte defenition of the charataristics of a specific Rod, some will run better than others and will fast frezze, with that said ALL will handle fine uphand and overhead.

    Likewise some 7018s are better than others in positional work.

    Someone will always tell you that certain rods wont do this that and the other, often there talking rubbish , If the Rod is spec'd to be used in that position and is suitable for that material and the strength of the weld , then that rod will be fine to use
  3. SiPMerlin150

    SiPMerlin150 Member

    Thank you snowcat, panic over! Would i need to increase/decrease amperage with V.ups or do i use normal power levels as you would on horizontal runs?
  4. StickNtig

    StickNtig Member

    Posts: 133
    Lincolnshire
    Yes you can weld all positions with 6013's, if you put the amps up a bit you can also weld vertical down but you dont get much penetration and you have to move quick.
  5. StickNtig

    StickNtig Member

    Posts: 133
    Lincolnshire
    As your learning probably best lower it a bit until you get the hang of it, after that just as you would on horizontal/vertical and horizontal etc
  6. decepticon

    decepticon Member

    6013's are fine for vertical up once you have got the hang of them, there are easier rods to use vertical up like a 7016 which are my personal choice. it will certainly be harder to get perfect welds with a 6013 with AC vert up but it can be done.
    buy a box or two of good brand 2.5 6013's and loads of off cuts from a local fabricators and practice every different joint until both boxes are gone.
    once 2.5 6013's are mastered you can use all other rods and sizes without too much problems.
    cheers
  7. SiPMerlin150

    SiPMerlin150 Member

    I take it 7016's will be ok on AC? I can hold a relatively tight consistant arc ( have a look on some of my profile albums for my recent practice ;)

    Also i dont know many online reputable stores that sell rods other than 6013's and 7018's, perhaps you would know any?
  8. snowcat

    snowcat back in black Staff Member

    Vertical down?

    Stovepipe with a 6013 OK for a set of railings or a bit of tin work not allot else I wouldn't have thought.

    SIP I wouldn't get too hung up on Rod choice at the moment the technique for 6013/7018/7016 is identical. chopping and changing is likely to just over complicate the issue.
  9. StickNtig

    StickNtig Member

    Posts: 133
    Lincolnshire

    That why i said you dont get much penetration but it is possible. but hey what do i know :whistle:
  10. decepticon

    decepticon Member

    local welding shop is the best place if you happen to be nearish to one.
    as i mentioned 6013 for practice practice practice and research techniques on here
    have fun
  11. SiPMerlin150

    SiPMerlin150 Member

    Well, another 5KG box of 6013's just ordered, i'll keep on with the practice! :welder:
  12. PTvor Member

    Posts: 1,100
    UK
    Check the data sheets on line before you buy them. There's no point buying something which works on AC but at 65V OCV which your welder doesn't do and then find you have problems. The big old oil-cooled welders often had a high voltage range to cope with rods needing a higher OCV. Inverters generally have far less problems with different types of electrode.

    A few if you look, such as

    http://www.rapidwelding.com/dynamic/Category.aspx?c=MMA&o=0&zl=1&sq=10

    and

    http://www.weldmet.co.uk/shop/catalog/a1300/hwindex.htm

    The problem with buying something a bit out of the ordinary is that it's often only for sale by the 15 to 20 Kg. You can't often walk into your local welding shop and ask for a packet or half packet of 6011s.


    As far as I know, with these test pieces, you have to use the rods they provide.

    If you look at the 6013s offered by major sellers, they usually offer at least 4 sorts and they are all designed for something slightly different. The ones as sold as out and out positional rods usually have a thinner coat for faster freeze and you have to be able to maintain an arc, no touch welding. As Snowcat said, AWS 6013 is a broad spec.
  13. TechnicAl

    TechnicAl Member

    Posts: 2,230
    Rotherham
    PTYor is spot on..........not all 6013s will weld Vu....avoid any that have RR in their classification (ISO 2560-A).........the most likely are those classed RC but even then look at the data sheet.
  14. justin Member

    what course are you doing? i'm doing the abc course they didn't do vertical up until level three.
  15. SiPMerlin150

    SiPMerlin150 Member

    Levels 1 & 2 :

    Safety
    Correct Amperage setting
    Problem spotting and resolving
    Creating a satisfactory weld to a british standard

    I'm guessing that the vertical up may not be in this but i always like to prepare :D
  16. Lewis Medlock

    Lewis Medlock Member

    Posts: 241
    Hereford
    Totally agree

    '6013' encompasses a load of rods of different quality and with hugely different characteristics.

    Unless there's a weld procedure for the test piece electrode choice comes down to personal preference. If the college is worth it's salt they'll have a selection of rods for you to experiment with so my advice is to save your cash and play around with all of them till you find one you're happy with.

    You'll probably prefer to root with one type and cap with another.

    Good luck with the course and let us know how you get on!

    Jim

    (edit: Snowcat already said this but with less waffle)
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  17. SiPMerlin150

    SiPMerlin150 Member

    Progress so far with V.up's....

    Hello, Long time no speak!

    I've not been spending as much time as i used to in the shed with my welder, as i have a girlfriend who needs some attention now and then on the weekends :laughing:,

    But, i've been practising the V.up on 2.5mm 6013's on a lower current and using the 'Christmas tree up' method. I'm using 4mm plate and in the early stages wasn't moving quick enough and blew through. I've found what seems to be the right power setting for learning.

    Heres some pictures:
    • P260312_20.42.jpg
    • P260312_20.40.jpg
  18. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok Enthusiast

    this may interest you ;)link may be a bit technical/advanced but it shows what it should look like ;) personally I'd cut bits out to practice on... don't see much point in doing uphill practice on flat plate myself, when are you gunna be wanting to do that out side practice? :)
  19. SiPMerlin150

    SiPMerlin150 Member

    I've seen him before, i watched most of his stick welding videos! He's good at explaining what he does as he's welding, rather than tell you the theory and then welds up joints :D

    As the for tuition, as i'm self employed and the only one who works for myself, getting time away is rather difficult even on weekends, especially through this nice weather we're having at the moment. I'll let you know as soon as matey!
  20. matt1978

    matt1978 http://www.uk.masters-of-speed.de/

    6013 is a general purpose Rutile electrode, they should be easier to learn with than a 7018 Basic electrode for example.

    You would be better to learn verticle doing a T-Fillet, using the Xmas tree method.
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