Cheapest gas suppliers ?

[Teflon]

Hello, just joined this forum today as a hobby welder, classic cars etc. I have a mig welder and an oxy-acetylene setup. However I feel I am paying a fortune on rental for the 3 bottles of gases, the smallest ones, from BOC. I also hear there is a charge of about £10 on top of purchase price on every transaction?

My question is where can I get cheaper bottles? I don't do too much welding so I use very little gas. I have been told pub CO2 is cheap, but not as good as the argon mix. What do you all use?

 

[lexi]

Hi there
Like you I am stuck with BOC as there`s not another alternative ....in Scotland anyway. Course it`s a rippoff but how else can some off the directors of that company afford the huge properties they have bought!!
Alex

 

[Bigjoe]

I wouldnt really advise you not to use pub co2 for welding as its only food grade and its not made to high enough specification for welding,i know it sounds weird but it can cause unclean welds (particularly a problem in structural work).

 

[Bigjoe]

Me again,
I just thought ,you could try Air Products Ltd, they have quite a few agents in scotland,im not sure how their pricing structure works but might be worth making some enquiries,i know it seems expensive but its still cheaper than buying disposable cylinders (thats the way i look at it anyway).
Hope that is of some help

 

[james_stan]

Hi All

Big Joe has cast some doubt on the use of pub gas. Has anyone got anything to add ? Any comparisions to the throwaway cylinders for example.

Big Joe do you reckon pub CO2 is ok for most of the hobby automotive welding most (I think) of us do ?

Cheers

james

 

[Highway_Star]

I've just completed putting a sill on my Range Rover, all of it was welded using a huge bottle of CO2 which I aquired on my travels, it came froma closed cinema, they use it for the fizzy juice, so it's the same stuff that pubs use for mixers I'd wager.

It works fine, the arc is a bit fiercer than with ArgoShield, so more prone to spattering. My workaround was too make sure that everything is srupulously clean before welding, takes a bit longer to prep, but worthwile. I think that the welds are hotter than with Argo too, see, to glow red longer. For me it's fine, especially as it was free

 

[Pentawelder]

Some pub gasses contain up to 75% nitrogen 25%CO2. Try Googling GUINNESS GAS to see more. The gas used for soft drinks is straight CO2.

 

[migmag]

Go to your local calour suplier or propane/butane,

They should do co2 neet.

 

[Hitch]

Food grade c02 is pretty pure, 99.9%
The contaminents are 30ppm of oxygen,20ppm of moisture, 2.5ppm of nitrogen and a fe other bits and pieces.
I wouldnt be concerned for car body work though.

More chance that your own level of skill will be a bigger issue.

The only reason that c02 was even used was its similar to the gas given off by mma rods.

 

[Highway_Star]

Yeah that figuires, I did get another bottle with the 2 CO2 that I got, it's bot a greeny label, 'mixed gasses', and it says it's nitrogen/CO2. The thread on that bottle is female so it won't fit my regulator anyway. I think I'll quietly lost it up at the recycling place.

 

[Bigjoe]

Sorry guys,
I did'nt mean to belittle users of pub co2,if its free go for it and it should be fine for car related stuff,i was just mentioning it as some co2 has a few other goodies added to it to combat contamination in gas lines etc,but please dont be put off by my ramblings.

 

[ANDY_SIM]

co2

Hi there,

we have been using pub co2 cylinders on our portable machine for years. There will be no problem using it. We pay abou 12 pounds a bottle form the local drinks supplier. We also use Argoshield which is of course a better gas, but I doubt you will notice the difference.
The regulator for CO2 is different form the Argoshield, it is however the same thread as the gas mix bottle you have( this mix will NOT act as a shielding gas at all) Regulators are available from any welding supplies company pretty cheaply.
CO2 is your best route. Go for it.

Andy

 

[weldequip]

Hi there,

we have been using pub co2 cylinders on our portable machine for years. There will be no problem using it. We pay abou 12 pounds a bottle form the local drinks supplier. We also use Argoshield which is of course a better gas, but I doubt you will notice the difference.
The regulator for CO2 is different form the Argoshield, it is however the same thread as the gas mix bottle you have( this mix will NOT act as a shielding gas at all) Regulators are available from any welding supplies company pretty cheaply.
CO2 is your best route. Go for it.

Andy

There is, in fact, a WORLD of difference between Argon mixtures & CO2. Argoshield is BY FAR the superior sheilding gas, offering a much smoother weld, better penetration, flatter weld bead, reduced spatter etc.etc.etc.
If you are just 'botching' then CO2 will do, if you wanna do the job properly it has to be Argon/Co2 mixture (which is 95% Argon, 2% Oxygen & just 3% CO2 content).
weldequip

 

[Smiler]

I can see the proper argon mix having a positive effect on improving penetration etc... when welding thicker steel such as cahssis repairs etc... but for the thicknessess involved in car body panels will the use of CO2 really make all that much difference to penetration?

Only asking as I simply don't know.

I'll be looking to buy that welder from you regardless weldequip, just trying to spread my limited funds.

Smiler.

 

[malcolm]

Thought it was CO2 that gave you more penetration. The main snag with CO2 on mild steel is the welds don't turn out quite so smooth, and the arc isn't quite so stable as the CO2 argon mixes. I tried some back to back tests on the gas comparison page.

Lots of people use CO2 when they can get a cheap bottle from the local pub. Not as nice as argoshield to use but it works.

 

[Smiler]

Yes, I have been looking at that page. Very good site by the way, it has been most enlightening.

 

[weldequip]

Even on thin stuff Argoshield is much better; you have to turn the power up to get the same penetration with CO2, which has a negative effect on thin sheet - the lower the better for car body thickness. I know a lot of people will be using CO2 because of the availability & cost advantages but Argoshield really does have a MARKED difference on performance. Oh, and I don't work for BOC Gases by the way! this is just knowledge gained through hands on experience using all the different machines & gases.

 

[Smiler]

That makes sense. So, realsiticaly, how much does argoshield and it's equivalents cost? i.e. Bottle hire? (per month or anualy) and refills?

I can buy a secondhand CO2 bottle for £10, the regulators appear to cost approx £20 new and refills are about £10 a time. I'm not going to be doing all that much welding as it's only for my own cars (and a VW Camper) which is why the bottle rental seems so prohibitive.

 

[malcolm]

From the latest BOC letter:

Bottle rental per year: £44.05
Plus the cost of the gas itself at the start and for each refill: £23.95
Plus VAT (of course).

That's for a size X argoshield light bottle. Size Y looks promising - twice the size but not twice the price.

Must admit I wouldn't switch to CO2 myself. I like the welding to be as easy as possible, but the cost is very annoying (one bottle a year for me normally).

 

[Smiler]

so that's £80 a year then. That's almost 6 months road tax.