Wrong wheelnuts. Wheels knackered?

[cardiffrob]

Well, I was given some steel wheels from a 1940/50 era car and the seats where the wheel nut sit have been messed up by having the wrong angled cone in them. Any options? Weld, braze, inserts, washers...? Thick steel but I'd prefer not to just grind them down to the right shape.
Not the end of the world if I have to bin them but they aren't common any more.

 

[cumbriasteve]

My first wild out of the box idea would be if you had access to a lathe you could make a punch and die set, heat up the area and reshape it, then finish off with some very light dressing with a dremmel or similar.

Depends on the value of the wheels if the amount of work which would be a fair bit (but interesting project) would be actually viable or even possible due to the thickness of the existing part..

 

[CompoSimmonite]

Would valve seat cutters restore the correct angle ?

 

[cardiffrob]

Both ideas have merit, although if the seat is ground away it will affect how deep the cone sits and the nut might bottom out...or am I talking b0110x? Tig weld/braze and seat cutter???

 

[123hotchef]

it would only be a few mm i doubt the nut would bottom out

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Do you know what car they may of fitted.
The reason I ask a few years ago I semi restored a 1952 2 Door AC, the wheels were damaged similar to yours.
The club would lend a reforming tool to repair.

Worth a shot, or make one your self.

 

[Bill Edwards]

How about posting a photo which will give us a better idea of the size, thickness, angles, access etc.

 

[cardiffrob]

That's on my list for this evening. I need to de-crud them a bit before I can get a good photo.

 

[cardiffrob]

One of the 'average' ones.

 

[bs2236]

The ones on my minor look a lot worse than those after 50+ years of wheel removal. I hadnt really given it too much thought but i dont have problems with loose wheel nuts, vibration or other wheel related issues.
One thing i have noticed is there is an issue with aftermarket wheel nuts from certain specialist suppliers, these have a much 'sharper' cone and i thought that they may bottom out on old rims. I found some old ones to use instead.

Good luck with them, whatever you decide.

 

[cardiffrob]

I know what you mean. Early Spridgets used a quite small radius curve on the nuts whilst the Minor used a more pointed taper. Not sure what has been used on these! Looks like they've used several different ones!

If possible, and to cover a few questions in one go, could I ask the welding experts if they would accept TIG welding on a steel wheel like this or is that 'cracktasticly' bad practice?

 

[bs2236]

I would be concerned about building them up, or more specifically machining them back to size after. If you are a few thou off on the PCD the load on the studs increases dramatically.

 

[nickk]

i've done welding re-facing on a couple of occasions & re faced with a countersink,then checking afterwards with a home made alignment fixture & all was fine in the years after that i had the vehicles.

 

[Bill Edwards]

To be honest I don't really like that - looks like the metal isn't very thick and quite rusty, and by the time you've got the correct taper there I doubt there'd be much real metal left. I've seen (had) a steel wheel where the cone part remained fixed to the hub but the rest of the wheel parted company.

I would have no concerns about building it up with weld, it's machining it that's the hard part. Mind, a carbide cutter in a die grinder is pretty good.

 

[brightspark]

weld or braze some cup washers in http://www.bokers.com/custom_washers.asp

 

[Bill Edwards]

A lot has to depend on the usage they'll be subjected to - will they be used on a daily driver, racing car or to keep an old classic on the road which will tootle along at up to 40 mph for ten miles every third weekend if the weather is nice...

 

[Bill Edwards]

Be ever so slightly careful when it comes to old wheels:

 

[nickk]

Be ever so slightly careful when it comes to old wheels:

View attachment 86900 View attachment 86901

LOOKS like a series l/rover

 

[normspanners]

dont forget some older wheels used to be a dome or rounded seat nut rather than a straight angle

 

[cardiffrob]

The steel around the holes is quite thick when compared to the standard type wheel rims found on these early Minors. Even ground out they might still be stronger than the awful originals. I like the idea from Brightspark, namely getting steel washers formed into the correct taper/curve/whatever and TIG brazing them in after a good clean. The rust on them is fairly superficial. A wheel hub itself ought to make a decent jig if 3 holes are bolted down whilst the last isTIG'd with the new washer and a good wheelnut are wound on. I'll follow this idea a bit more and see where it takes me.

Thanks everyone. Always get some good ideas and new avenues on this site!