What sort of weld is this?

  1. oldstan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    Hi. I know absolutely nothing about welding but need some advice. I thought that this forum would be a good place to get some. Am I wrong?
    Basically I need to identify what sort of weld has been done to my car, and how I can know if the quality is any good?
    My car had a sill (rocker panel) crushed and rather than replace the entire sill the insurance repairer cut out the damaged section and welded a new section in.
    I have never seen a weld that looks like this, nor the blue colour of what looks like oxidation or soot.
    It also looks like lots of heat has been used as smoke deposits cover the underside.
    From the pictures does anyone have any ideas what type of weld it is and why it looks like blue oxidation? The car is a 3 year old C4, so high strenghth steel is involved, or supposed to be.
    Thanks for any help. P1070439 comp.jpg P1070459 comp.jpg P1070516 comp.jpg
     
  2. gaz1

    gaz1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    9,108
    Location:
    westyorkshire
    more like spot welded and seam sealed up afterwards is what id think it would be
     
  3. colnerov

    colnerov Member

    Messages:
    3,259
    Location:
    Nr Gatwick UK
    Hi, I agree with the above, I would say the blue tinge is from an aerosol of blue paint flicked over the repair before the application of the seam sealer/underseal.

    Colin
     
  4. oldstan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    Many thanks Guys. I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me out.

    For anyone interested, this is 'the story', the reason I am trying to work out what sort of weld was used...........

    Basically I think the entire repair job done on the near-side sill was rushed and done on the cheap. You should see the other side - its an abomination of a paint job. They did not even bother to flatten off the old paint. I kid you not that a new born monkey with a spray can on a wet and windy day would have done better, seriously. When I complained and told the bodyshop manager he thought I was exagerating and taking the P, so he peronally called round my house. Talk about eating humble pie when he saw the dry runs, dried drips hanging below the sill level, uneven thickness of paint, dust spots in paint, overspray, filler residue, exposed uncoated metal on underside........ well you get the picture.

    Anyway, paint can be stripped and sorted, its the metal work I am worried about. The car is a 3 year old new style C4 Picasso, and the sill panel that was crushed (and the metal torn) is a crash safety feature on these cars. Cutting off only the smashed front piece and welding on another piece of sill is worrying enough (but apparently, according to the bodyshop is 'permissable' if welded correctly), but not knowing if it was spot welded, seam welded, glued on or double-sided sticky taped on is more of a concern.

    That is why I wanted to know if anyone could identify what sort of weld was used.

    Thanks to you guys I now at least that whatever type of weld has been done is hidden under seam sealer. I thought that the seam sealer was the actually method for joining the new sill piece (a crash safety feature) to the frame!

    Should I try and remove the seam sealer to see if I can tell what sort of weld was done?

    Would the weld have even been done from the seam sealed side or from the side I cant see?

    Also, is the smoke blackening (not the spray stuff but the other darkening just about visible like smoke or carbon) normal?
    I ask because if someone has been using a blow torch and bending and pulling at heat sensitive high-strength steel it might be weakened. By the way all the pinch seams on the sill were perfect before the repair!

    Close to £2000 charged (yes 2k, not 200) for that work you see in the pictures and the painting of the entire sill on the other side. Very hard to see how it can be justified in my tiny mind, but safety more of a concern hence wanting to get the weld question sorted.

    Thanks again Guys.
     
  5. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    Sorry I can't advise, but :o at what was charged.
     
  6. colnerov

    colnerov Member

    Messages:
    3,259
    Location:
    Nr Gatwick UK
    Hi, If they have cut out and replaced the crushed bit of sill then the patch repair should be seam welded, although the bottom edge can be spot, puddle or seam welded because it's an original panel join. As it's had the application of filler, seam sealer or underseal and paint there's no real way of knowing without stripping it all off to find out. You will then have to pay to have it painted again because I would imagine the repairers won't do it again without being paid. In short you will have to take it on trust.

    Colin
     
    oldstan likes this.
  7. BritishLeylandLover

    BritishLeylandLover New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Nottingham
    image.jpg image.jpg As already said it looks like seam sealer and (Iam no expert far from it) looks like it's the original seam sealer, when I hit a rock that a nieghbour had put there to stop people parking on thier verge,( that'll learn me!) I put a severe dint in my sill of my old Astra van, my mate at the body shop welden on some little cleats to the cill and pulled it out with a puller (see photos similar) are you sure that they have welded anything? And or if they have it's probably on the front.
    does the seam sealer look the same on the opposite side of the car?
     
  8. oldstan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    They have definately done some welding. Front of sill was beyond repair. Its a complete single unit on these cars, but they have obviously put a new section in as no one could restore the tearing (not properly anyway) done. I've uploaded a photo of the damage after the curb jumped out in front of me :)
    The part that looks like a section on the frontal photo is actually a servere crease, not a gap. Its a one piece sill from front to rear.
    I've also uploaded a a before repair and after repair photo. Not easy to tell which one is before and after, especialy if you look at the distorted seams and the smoke / carbon on the after pic. smash comp.jpg before.jpg after.jpg
     
  9. BritishLeylandLover

    BritishLeylandLover New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Yeah I get you now, that "black carbon" looks like a spray on rubberised stone chip spray to be honest. 2k FFS!! The annoying thing is we are all paying for this in our insurance premium.
     
  10. oldstan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    Yes, £2 grand (just over in fact with vat added) seems a lot but was actually a typical quote. I had a friend who did some similar damage in the same model of car but they took out the bumber and wing too and that was over £4k. Its getting crazy now. All the fancy features and fancy ways of attachment put the labour costs in crazy land. Bit like doing a clutch and flywheel on a 10 year old car. It can cost as much as a 10 year old car is worth these days. Often cheaper to write off / scrap otherwise good older cars than fix them now. Dont get me started with electrics.............

    By the way, the carbon / smoke I refer to can be seen as a greyish residue near the rubber tipped raised jacking point that look like a hump, to right of the photograph closest to the repair proper. Its also visible on the floor pan above the stone chip you mention between the 2 seat bolts. Its definately carbon / smoke as it rubs off.
     
  11. tinker jim Member

    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    birminham
    That does not look like the standard of work the insurance would be happy with on a three year old car.you shouldn't be able to see were it' been repaired specially for princely sum of two grand.
     
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  12. Shedendman

    Shedendman Member

    Messages:
    3,800
    east sussex
    :o:o:o
    I'm lost for words
     
  13. colnerov

    colnerov Member

    Messages:
    3,259
    Location:
    Nr Gatwick UK
    Hi, Ahh yes but the insurance company don't pass the standard of work. They leave that to the customer to sign that they are satisfied with the repair before they pay out.

    Colin
     
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  14. oldstan New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    Sadly most people do indeed just do that. Car gets returned, smiling delivery driver asks for a signiture (hidden in the small print something like 'vehicle has been inspected and accepted by customer' and job done. No issues get noticed until the next service or MOT, if at all.

    Me? well, I'm too long in the tooth and been bitten too many times to accept anything on face value. You should have seen the face on the delivery driver when i pulled out a mat and a torch and crawled under the car before I even looked at his paperwork. Needless to say I didnt sign that job off. paint comp.jpg

    I will make this photo the last one as if I keep going this thread could become a monster, but this is what the paint job on the other side of the sill looked like (done to a 3 year old car remember, not a £50 scrapper).
     
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