welding and pacemaker anyone use Mig welder with a metronic pacemaker

  1. borderman New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    wales
    Hi all i want to buy a mig welder but i been told by the manufacturer of the pacemaker that i can use upto 160amp using precautions and safety.
    I just want feedback with people having known or is using welding with a pacemaker to be honest i am ok and nothing else affects it not even mobiles and i have a underlined heart beat so my pacemaker only works when needed . i been looking at the
    Clarke MIG102NG 90Amp No Gas MIG Welder
    for hobbys and doing welding jobs on my car when it needs doing this welder can weld steel up to 4mm


      • 230V - 50Hz - 1 phase

      • Min/ max amperage: 35/90A

      • Open circuit voltage: 20-30V

      • Max input current: 16A

      • Max welding thickness (mild steel): 4mm

      • Welding wire diameter up to 0.9mm

      • Professional type torch with full on/off control (not permanently live)

      • Turbo fan cooling for greater efficiency
    what steel on cars do you normal use i just bought a inverter welder from Aldi today its up to 140amps I am not confident with this so i might take it back ,anyone offer good advise on this issue .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2017
  2. Parm

    Parm Metal Tinkerer

    Messages:
    8,153
    Location:
    Towcester
    Speak to your medical practitioner. Do not rely on welding equipment suppliers. They are experts in welding not the human body

    One of my friends had major open heart surgery last year and how has a pace maker fitted. It's quite a high tech bit of kit and talks to a reciever unit that he keeps in his bedroom. This thing down loads info from his body remotely and sends it to the hospital over night

    He has been told by the doctor that he cannot go near welding equipment or anything else that creates a high electro magnetic field
     
  3. Shoggi

    Shoggi Member

    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Bradford west yorkshire
    Don't buy a gasless mig there Jabberwocky !!
     
    hunter27 likes this.
  4. grim_d

    grim_d Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    1,753
    Location:
    Scotland - Ayrshire
    My dad has a pacemaker. No welding.

    Now I have to weld everything for him. :welder:

    Speak to your doctor but I suspect you're out of luck.
     
  5. borderman New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    wales
    this is the advise i have been given off the manufacturer but the hospitals tell you not to use them so whos right and whos wrong

    I am emailing in response to the query that you posted on our website.



    Please see our recommendations for welding below:



    Welding at currents above 160A - For welding currents up to 400 A maintain a 5 foot separation between the components of the welding system and the PM or ICD. If the closer than 5 feet to the welding system components there is the potential for Pacemaker reversion or magnet rate operation or disabling of ICD detection circuit or ICD shock.



    Welding at currents less than 160A - The random nature of electromagnetic energy generated during welding makes it difficult to predict the effect on a Medtronic IPG & CRT-P and ICD & CRT-D.

    The arc, welding cable, and the welding machine produce and carry the current associated with the welding operation. This current produces the magnetic field that may influence the operation of the implanted device. Any effects caused by welding interference will end when the arc is broken. It is recommended that individuals with Medtronic IPG & CRT-P and ICD & CRT-D avoid welding if possible; however, welding at low currents poses a low risk of affecting either device. Acetylene or other nonelectric welding where suitable will eliminate the risk of interference with the device.



    NOTE: There is no apron or vest that will effectively shield the Medtronic IPG & CRT-P and ICD & CRT-D from these magnetic fields generated by the welding.



    Physicians who have a patient desiring to weld or who will be in close proximity to a welder should consider the potential effects of inhibition, reversion, and/or triggering of the device on their patient. If an individual, in consultation with their physician, chooses to weld, the following recommendations may reduce the risk of interaction for conventional electric welders. The issuance of these recommendations does not imply endorsement. Rather, it recognizes that patients who do weld can reduce the likeliness of an interaction.



    1. Ensure that all items are in good working order and properly grounded.

    2. Limit welding currents to less than 160 amps.

    3. Work in a dry area with dry gloves and dry shoes.

    4. Keep the welding arc a minimum of 2 feet (60 cm) from the device.

    5. Connect the ground clamp to the metal as close to the point of welding as possible.

    6. Arrange the work so the handle and rod will not contact the metal being welded if they are accidentally dropped.

    7. Twist the cables around each other. Route the cables and place the welding machine away from the welder.

    8. Do not weld with rapid, repeated, short bursts. Wait a few seconds between each weld. When having difficulty starting a weld on a dirty surface, do not strike the rod in a rapidly repeated manner. Wait several seconds between each attempted strike.

    9. Step away from the area if feeling light-headed, dizzy, or if a shock has been delivered.

    10. Do not work on a ladder or in a cramped, confined location.

    11. Do not work alone. Work only in the presence of a person who understands these recommendations.





    I hope this helps and if you have any further questions then please do not hesitate to contact us or call our helpline on 03301 232112.



    Kind Regards,



    Daniel Hunter
     
  6. borderman New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    wales
    The recommendations provided in my previous email apply to Welding at currents less than 160A, including the following:



    • EDM - Electromagnetic Discharge Machine

    • GMAW - Gas Metal Arc Welding types:

    • MIG - Metal Inert Gas welding

    • MAG - Metal Active Gas welding

    • SMAW or MMA - Shielded Metal Arc Welding or Stick Welding or Manual Metal Arc welding

    • GTAW or TIG – Gas Tungsten Arc Welding or Tungsten Inert Gas

    • Helium arc

    • Plasma cutters

    • Gouging



    Furthermore, as mentioned in the recommendations, Acetylene or other nonelectric welding where suitable will eliminate the risk of interference with the device.



    In regards to how the Electro-magnetic interference, high electromagnetic energy fields could affect how your cardiac device senses your heart rhythm. Because your cardiac device is designed to sense the electrical activity of your heart, it may also sense a strong electromagnetic energy field outside your body, such as the typically strong EMI produced by welding equipment.



    If your cardiac device is exposed to a strong electromagnetic energy field, it may not be able to detect an abnormal heart rhythm, thus it may not deliver the appropriate therapy. Several safeguards are built into your cardiac device to shield it from strong electromagnetic energy fields. For example, the metal case of your cardiac device acts as a shield against electromagnetic energy fields. However the safeguards cannot completely shield the device from strong external EMI fields, such as those produced by a welding machine.

    Any effects of electromagnetic energy fields on your cardiac device are temporary and will stop when you move away from the source of the electromagnetic energy field.





    We appreciate your concern regarding the longevity of you Cardiac device. The longevity of a device can be affected in many different ways, such as the programming of the device and pacing and sensing outputs all of which are determined by your Healthcare Professional. We have logged you concern with our European Technical support team as feedback.



    I hope this helps and please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions regarding your device.



    Daniel Hunter
     
  7. borderman New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    wales
    and what is odd a lot of the stuff say affects the pacemaker i never any problems with so its an it and miss really.

    i think maybe you can't stand by the welding transformer ,i think the hospitals are giving out the wrong advise ,like most you got to avoid electric shock but i think this advise would be for anyone using a welder .
    Medtronic Limited

    Building 9,
     
  8. borderman New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    wales
    WELDING AND CHAINSAWS
    Q: I read in my patient manual that I should avoid welding. Why?
    A: Unlike most other household power tools, welding with currents above 160 amps may have a higher tendency to temporarily affect the normal function of your pacemaker or implantable defibrillator.

    Q: What if I may need to use a welder?
    A: It is recommended you avoid using welding currents above 160 amps. Follow the safety precautions below to minimize the risk of interfering with your heart device while welding with currents under 160 amps.

    Welding Safety Precautions

    • Limit welding to currents less than 160 amps
    • Work in a dry area with dry gloves and shoes
    • Maintain a 2-foot (60 centimeter) distance between the welding arc and heart device
    • Keep the welding cables close together and as far away as possible from your heart device. Place the welding unit approximately 5 feet from the work area.
    • Connect the ground clamp to the metal as close to the point of welding as possible. Arrange the work so the handle and rod will not contact the metal being welded if they are accidentally dropped.
    • Wait several seconds between attempts when having difficulty starting a weld
    • Work in an area that offers firm footing and plenty of room for movement
    • Work with an informed person who understands these suggestions
    • Immediately stop welding and step away from the area if you start feeling lightheaded, dizzy, or you believe your implantable defibrillator has delivered a shock
    Since welding equipment may temporarily affect the normal operation of your heart device, any decision you make to use this equipment should be made in consultation with your heart doctor. Your doctor can advise you as to the degree of risk these responses pose for your medical condition.

    Aprons or vests will not effectively shield your pacemaker or implantable defibrillator from the electromagnetic energy generated by welding equipment.

    Q: I read in my patient manual that I should avoid using a chainsaw. Why?
    A: The electromagnetic energy generated by a chainsaw is similar to other electric and gasoline powered tools. If electromagnetic interference occurs with your heart device and you experience symptoms such as becoming dizzy or lightheaded, a running chainsaw may present a higher risk of injury to you than other power tools.

    Q: What if I may need to use a chainsaw?
    A: You may need to use a chainsaw from time to time. Follow the safety precautions below to minimize the risk of interfering with your heart device while using a chainsaw.

    Chainsaw Safety Precautions

    • Maintain a 6-inch distance between the motor of an electric chainsaw and your heart device. Also, be sure the equipment is properly grounded.
    • Maintain a 12-inch distance between the components of the ignition system of a gaspowered chainsaw and your heart device. Also, it is better to use one that is built with the spark plug located away from the hand grips.
    • Immediately stop cutting and turn off your chainsaw if you start feeling lightheaded, dizzy, or you believe your implantable defibrillator has delivered a shock
    • Do not work on the engine while it is running
    • Do not touch the coil, distributor, or spark plug cables of a running engine
     
  9. borderman New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    wales
    the welder i am looking as variable setting up to 90 amps so its a do or don't who would you be inclined to listen to
     
  10. EmmaS Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Personally I'd probably inclined to listen to medical practitioners on this one. I'd just find another hobby if I thought welding would be risking my heart.
    I'm not sure anyone is going to be comfortable suggesting that you'll be okay going for it under the circumstances. It's really only you that can decide.
     
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  11. Maker

    Maker nEw mEmBeR

    Messages:
    6,543
    Location:
    Don't ask questions
    160 amps sounds pretty arbitrary, there's too many variables to say one current is fine but another is not so I've got no idea where they got that from.

    If it were me, I'd buy O/A.;)
     
    WorkshopChris likes this.
  12. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    7,437
    Location:
    Bedfordshire England
    I'd take it as an opportunity to learn to gas weld/braze.
     
  13. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Messages:
    4,061
    uk Bristol
  14. borderman New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    wales
  15. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    That's where my money'd be. :rolleyes:

    Anyone else, inc manufacturers, who give alternative advice [however well-meaning] MAY be wrong. Is that a chance you're willing to take?

    I fancy wrestling great white sharks in the confines of a big tank of water, but folk are telling me it could be injurious to my health......:scared:
    [Sorry, I'm a bit grumpy today :ashamed: :D]
     
  16. RonA

    RonA specialist in repairing sealed for life equipment

    Messages:
    1,294
    Location:
    Stockton on Tees, UK
    Not sure about welders but when I worked in a Power station we had a blanket ban on anybody fitted with a pacemaker. They were worried that the magnetic fields generated by the Turbo Alternators & Transformers would cause them to malfunction
    RonA
     
  17. Robotstar5

    Robotstar5 Casanunda Staff Member

    Messages:
    17,613
    Location:
    Birmingham
    We had warning notices near a HF (high frequency) spot welder and our shaker rig which was a device that used a very high power electromagnet to vibrate assemblies when testing them for rattles.
     
  18. borderman New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    wales
    they recon most things affect the pacing unit but i have not really had any bad thing happen you would think they would make a welder that is well insulated so people with these devices can use welding there people out there that as lost there jobs and have been warned not to use welders and have now lost there jobs because the interference warnings and possibly misleading information its ok to fit these devises but by the looks they don't test them to see if they do affect them whats to say theirs a Mig welder out there that will work perfectly with out any ill affects and people worry over nothing .because on google in forums people are using welders with pacemakers and this i don't understand
     
  19. gt6s Member

    Messages:
    690
    Location:
    Newtownards Co Down Northern Ireland
    What about fitting welding leads to the pacemaker and welding with that ? Whats the worst that could happen ? :scared:

    Laurence
     
  20. WorkshopChris Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,181
    Location:
    South East Essex
    I would take a look at gas welding & brazing, with oxy acetylene. Rent free options are available.

    Tig would give you options for thinner materials with a current draw than mig, however the HF used to initiate the arc on a ac/dc set could be hazardous.

    All welding cables do have a electro magnetism effect, this can often be seen directly when the welding return cable (earth) is laying on a floor containing grinding dust. You can see how the metal particles are attracted and form a line on the floor along each side of the cable.
    PS. Welcome to the forum.
     
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