Triumph Herald 13/60

  1. optima21 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    halifax, England
    I know I've posted bits and pieces on this in the past but I think its time that it has its own thread as this I'm now only working 2 days a week for the next 6 months so that I can concerntrate on it and drive it by the end of the year. I dont think I'll be posting every last detail of the rebuild, but just an overview showing progress and things that go wrong (as we all know not everything goes right). so this is how it stands at the minute and its been like this for 21 years now.

    50528129_10215646251842726_5950084139523768320_n.jpg
     
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  2. RWD3M Member

    Messages:
    376
    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    Went through a similar process about 10 years ago when I restored my GT6.

    Looks like you've got your work cut out there!

    Good luck chap!

    Richard.
     
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  3. CompoSimmonite Member

    Messages:
    4,166
    Location:
    Werrington, Stoke-on-Trent
    Wished I'd kept my Herald convertible :(
     
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  4. optima21 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    halifax, England
    I decided many years ago that I need to update the styling of the car, which other people may hate, but its my car and what I want to do, so here is my thinking.

    at the back end, Im going for a smoothed boot lid with a frenched numberplate recess, internal hinges and electric opening.

    DSC01708.JPG

    which required making a new framework for the boot lid

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    with some round lights recessed into the wings (which will need to be widened slightly)

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    I'll be ditching the over riders, and making one-piece vitesse bumpers front and rear, which will be made from sections of vitesse bumpers, I had a play trying to do this using DC tig and MIG, bit it was a failure, but thanks to @doubleboost I bought an R-Tech AC/DC tig to do this one job.

    https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/miging-thin-aluminium-alloy-failure.78314/#post-1098207

    I'l be having a smoother roof with restyled side windows and widder c pillars, a bit like on this jag, which may mean that I need to weld the roof to the car, rather than have it bolting on. as the sid windows are flat glass it should be easy enough to get some made.

    [​IMG]

    Im thinking of having a fairly standard interior but have a new dashboard

    [​IMG]

    more details of that are here

    https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/stuff-you-have-made-today.67127/page-241#post-1283050

    I'll be making a new bonnet, but Im thinking of having the wheel arches built into the engine bay valances like an austin healey sprite, as Im hoping it'll be possible to make a bonnet that way that is more rot resistant than a standard one.

    [​IMG]

    and here's mine while modifying a new front panel

    [​IMG]

    and the front panel ended up like this, with a recessed grill

    [​IMG]

    so thats my thinking of the styling.

    The herald has a separate chassis which is a result of there not being enough pressing capacity in the uk to make the car as a monocoque, which meant that the bosyshell could be made from simpler pressings. so here is a herald rolling chassis

    [​IMG]

    mine is pretty rotten, it'll be rebuilt in the back garden, which will be done in a clarke temporary garage

    https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/clarke-temporary-garage-assembly.66711/#post-930229

    I did replace the outriggers and side rail on one side of the car with 50mm box section, and I'll be doing that again, as there are a few details that I'm not happy with now, and heres how I did it, and think I'll do this again, as it'll be more rot resistant and stronger than the standard U channel made from thin metal, there is a small increase in weight but I think its worth it. ( a standard outrigger weights 1.15kg and one from box section weighs 1.55kg)

    DSC01720.JPG

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    the main bodyshell is made in 3 sections (excluding the bonnet) that bolt together, they are the rear tub and bulkead (they join under the drivers seat) and the roof. Im going to be making a one piece bodyshell as the three layers of metal that bolt together at the join between the rear tub, bulkead and middle outrigger ae designed to rot. I did replace the floor of one side of the car, but I'll be remaking that

    DSC01718.JPG

    so my first job is to weld the floor up and fill the holes up that Ive made, I think MOT standard welding (plating rather tha butt welding) will be good enough for this, so this part of the floor panel is the first to go in

    DSC01724.JPG

    once the shell is in one piece, I'll support it in chassis stands (set A), then unbolt the chassis and remove the set of chassis stands that hold the chassis up (set B), I then need to use set B chassis stands to support the shell on some 50mm square box section that is wider than the chassis. I'll then need to remove set A chassis stands from under the shell, and then pull the chassis from under the bodyshell.
     
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  5. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    @optima21 No need to ask how you're going to be spending all those spare minutes, then :)
    Looking forward to seeing progress :thumbup:

    In light of what you're planning, what are the implications for an SVA test when done? Or are the changes to the original Herald not sufficient to trigger the need? :dontknow:
     
  6. optima21 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    halifax, England
    thats a grey area, I'd say Im repairing the chassis as its rotten, rather than modifying it, if its modified, it should have a BIVA test, if its repaired it doesnt need one. The question is, what do you regard as being a repair or a modification. The body mounting points can be modified, pulled from a link on the net below.

    VOSA have provided the following response to your questions;

    Chassis.

    Q) What is classed as chassis? Is it purely the outer longitudinal rails or are the crossmembers between these also a part of the chassis?

    A) Chassis should be taken to include crossmembers.

    Q) We know that cutting or shortening a chassis is classed as modification but is this relative to the vehicle wheelbase i.e. the chassis must remain uncut between the 2 axles but anything forward of front or aft of rear suspension mounts can be removed?

    A) Chassis includes the full original length of the longitudinal members including to the front of the front axle and to the rear of the rear axle.

    Q) Is it acceptable to remove bodymounts, which contribute no strength to the chassis when changing a body to a different style /make?

    A) Yes, providing they are additional to and are not an integral part of the chassis structure.

    Q) Is it acceptable to strengthen a chassis by the addition of boxing plates a process that involves turning a 3-sided open chassis rail into a fully enclosed 'box' chassis?

    A) Yes, providing the original structure remains unchanged.


    the bodywork isnt an issue as its not a monocoque so I can do what I want with it (as far as I'm aware). If I wanted to go though SVA it would fail as the glass has the wrong markings on it to be compliant. I'll be running the orginal engine and suspension etc.
     
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  7. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

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    5,205
    Location:
    south yorks
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  8. optima21 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    halifax, England
    the floor of the car has now had the big holes welded up so that the shell should have enough strength to support itself with out a chassis. the footwell in the photo has been welded in, together with the bulkhead and under the passenger seat.

    DSC01782.JPG

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    I've also made a frame for supporting the chassis on so that it can be rebuilt in this thread

    https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/chassis-support-frame.90766/

    and 20 years ago I decide that I needed to remove the engine from my car, and yesterday I've finally done it.......just goes to prove a bloke will get round to doing things by himself without a woman nagging him, just give us time to get things done and we will do them.......
    .....eventually :laughing::laughing:

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    thats the real reason why I stopped working on the car all that time ago is because I couldnt do the bulkhead with the engine in place, and at the time didnt have an engine crane to remove it. I think the engine crane was one of my first ebay purchases and I've been a member on there since 2001. the engine wasn't even fastened in place it was just supported on a wooden block.

    hopefully my engine rebuild will go as smoothly as this one (when I get round to it)

     
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  9. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    Have this one on me, now crack on.....:D

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Kayos

    Kayos Member

    Messages:
    4,652
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Nice project, I like that it's being modified, a lot of people assume it's a boy racer thing but cars have been modified since cars were invented
     
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  11. optima21 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    halifax, England
    so true, here's a book written in 1919 about engine tuning

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    time for another update, and today the chassis was removed from the shell. normally to remove a chassis the roof is removed first and then the bulkhead and rear body tub, but the works manual does show that the bodyshell can be removed assembled by bolting some reinforcing sections between the bulkhead and rear body tub. I just welded them together and it seemed to work.

    DSC01795.JPG

    so first I made some wooden bases for my chassis stands and bottle jack (Im not a fan of trolley jacks as the arc of the arm tries to pull cars off chassis stands at higher lifts.

    DSC01799.JPG DSC01799.JPG

    the car has been on 4 chassis stands for the last 20 years between the crossmembers at the front and back of the car

    DSC01800.JPG

    so then the foot wells near the A posts were also supported on chassis stands,and the chassis stands under the chassis were removed and the chassis lowered

    DSC01804.JPG

    a 50mm box section was then jacked up under the floorpan and its slightly longer than the width of the car, and another set of chassis stands were put under this length of box section
    DSC01806.JPG

    the original chassis stands under the floorpan were removed and the chassis was then rolled out.

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    and the chassis was then put on the frame I built during last week

    DSC01816.JPG
     
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  12. Following this. My kind of thread :thumbup:
     
  13. optima21 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    halifax, England
    well it doesnt reall look like much has happened but Im working on the chassis and first the outriggers were removed including the original ones on the passenger side and my original set made from 50mm box section on the drivers side.

    but first here is my old centre outrigger, a new centre outrigger and a one made from 50mm box section. its scary that the one with holes in it actually had an mot and the underseal was holding it together

    DSC01820.JPG

    and the outriggers weer replaced without removing the ends of the old ones, they were just plated over

    DSC01841.JPG

    so once the mounting areas on the chassis were cleaned up it was looking alot better.

    DSC01849.JPG

    the area arround the differential are known to rot on these cars and had been plated in several areas previously (and not very well) and there were holes in the main rail again

    DSC01847.JPG

    and a brace was made to support the chassis while I cut out the rot (and plating)

    DSC01846.JPG

    the using a plasma cutter I cut small sections at a time out to see what the construction inside the chassis rails was like. I've got to say I was impressed with the pilot arc cut50, even running from a 13a plug it had enough power to do the cutting.

    DSC01851.JPG

    and tidied up ready for new metal to be let in

    DSC01854.JPG

    lets see what fun its going to makiung and welding in some new sections
     
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  14. Dcal Member

    Messages:
    1,227
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    Tidy job.

    Are you going to keep as much of the original steel as possible?
    I tend to do that, because when it's gone it's gone, but sometimes it's easier to cut good metal out to a seam.
    Looks like you could make the whole chassis with a box folder.

    Great to see a proper job being done on one of these.
     
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  15. RWD3M Member

    Messages:
    376
    Location:
    Wiltshire, UK
    I hope this isn't too far removed from what your doing, but this is a pic of my GT6 chassis after I got it back from being galvanised.

    Chassis on trestles.JPG

    I was quite fortunate that it only needed minor repairs and was otherwise in very good condition.

    I would recommend you do the same, galvanise that is.

    I'm enjoying this thread, do keep up the good work!
     
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  16. Wallace

    Wallace Member

    Messages:
    6,404
    Location:
    Staines, Middlesex, England.
    I like the subtle body mods, should look interesting when finished. :thumbup:
     
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  17. optima21 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    halifax, England
    I think most of the metal on the car will be replaced, its designed to rot, and has. the main rails and bits that connect them are a little bit more complex in shape than just using a box folder, but the outriggers and side rails are just made by them.

    very nice, the galvanizing is a good idea, but Im thinking that I'll just go with epoxy primer on the outside and cavity wax on the inside.

    I've finished repairing the back of the chassis, with making sections to let in, but leaving a decent gap to get some penetration of the welds

    DSC01857.JPG

    and the finished repair

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    and luckily the rear end of the other main rail was in much better condition.

    progress is slower than I'd like, but its going in the right direction.
     
  18. optima21 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    halifax, England
    time for another update, Ive been working on the outriggers, I want to run the side rails slightly lower than standard so that there is clearance between the middle outrigger and the floorpan, as the three layers of metal there are just designed to rot. the side rails and outriggers are made from 50mm box sections and the end of the outriggers next to the chassis needs to be increased to 80mm in height, so some offucts of boxe sections were welded to the ends. its amazing how much the sides of the box section bend when it is cut and the internal stresses are released, so a few clamps were required to hold it in place

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    and tig welded up, sorry its not to the standard of some of you guys on here

    DSC01873.JPG

    then the rear outriggers were welded in place, while being supported at the ends to be in the correct position. It seems to be taking me forever to check and adjust the postion of things until Im happy that they are where I think they should be.

    DSC01882.JPG

    and the middle outriggers, as they are in line with one another I thought I'd do these before the other ones that connect to the side rail as their alignment is easy to work out, you can just clamp them to a peice of box section (tacked in place to the support frame) in the right place using large nuts and penny washers as spacers.

    DSC01888.JPG
     
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  19. Wallace

    Wallace Member

    Messages:
    6,404
    Location:
    Staines, Middlesex, England.
    Must be satisfying welding in new metal after so many years. :thumbup:
     
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  20. Morrisman

    Morrisman Member

    Very interesting thread. Glad to see I’m not the only one with long term projects. :whistle: My T Bucket was going to be a quick finish build then on the road....18 months ago...

    One useful thing I built years ago was a body lift. First one was some used 2x3 box section that fitted inside the profile of the walls and roof of the little shed I was in at the time, with a chain block at the apex. It was so useful for taking the body off, as the body had to live in a lock up in the next street.

    When we moved house, and I built a bigger garage, I built a new lifting frame, movable, on castor wheels, with an electric inch. So useful when you are a Billy no mates and need to do numerous body fitments. :thumbup:

    I still have it, it’s been to thenPhilippines with use, earned its keep over there, then came back and is in my old garage once again.

    1068E853-8C13-4F78-912E-BA838E2E7F2D.jpeg
     
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