Removing rear ARB bushing bolts.

[h3rman]

Right, I'm wanting to change my rear ARB bushes on my car before my MOT (was an advisory last year, so best get them done, even tho they don't look too bad).

Now, have had a look under the car and there are 8 bolts (4 on each side) holding in the 2 brackets for the ARB bushes. However, they don't look like they have been off since the car was made neigh on 12.5 years ago!

What is the best way I can take these off without having them snap or shear off? Last night I doused them in 3 in 1 oil, not the penetrating stuff, just the normal stuff in a tin. Not got any penetrating stuff at the moment, but this is better than nothing at least until I get some penetrating stuff.

Planning on doing them Friday (if I get the day off work and weather holds up). They were covered in crap from the roads, so have cleaned them up with a wire brush and was gonna soak them in oil every night from now until Friday (that will be 5 nights), then was gonna try and take them off with the impact gun. Just wondering if that sounds ok, or if the impact wrench will be too much for them?

I have a Sealey GSA02 impact wrench rated 460 lb/ft max torque and 400 lb/ft working torque (full specs here). The gun has 3 forward and 3 reverse settings, should I try it with the lowest setting first or just go straight for it? Or should I just avoid the impact gun and go for something a little less aggressive? Anyone got any comments/suggestions?

Just want to do this as painlessly as possible. Last thing I want is a sheared bolt, had enough of them in the past to make me take my time, oil it up for a few days, then try it instead of diving right in.

Cheers!

 

[BChild]

Can you see the nuts or are they captive inside a chassis leg?

If you can see them then I'd use a rotary wire brush on the threads that are exposed.

If they are hidden then I'd drill a small hole in the chassis leg and spay with penetrating oil to help free up the bolts

I'd undo them using a breaker bar rather than a air tool which is more likely to snap the bolt

 

[h3rman]

2 of them are visible and poke out the other side, but the other 6 are not visible. Access is too tight to get a proper big breaker bar on them, the car will only be on axel stands, not a ramp, so the breaker bar will just hit the ground. Also, I have been told that a breaker bar is more likely to snap the bolt because of the twisting forces involved, because you are not only turning the bolt, but also pulling down on it. Where as an air tool will only apply a rotating force, not twisting, and hence should be better, but I came here to see if that theory was true or a load of rubbish.

Regardless, breaker bar is not a possibility due to lack of ground clearance......

Would an air ratchet be a better option? My mate has one I can borrow if needs be. I did try a normal 1/2" ratchet briefly, but it was solid, so decided to stop and do it properly instead of rushing.

 

[BChild]

2 of them are visible and poke out the other side, but the other 6 are not visible. Access is too tight to get a proper big breaker bar on them, the car will only be on axel stands, not a ramp, so the breaker bar will just hit the ground. Also, I have been told that a breaker bar is more likely to snap the bolt because of the twisting forces involved, because you are not only turning the bolt, but also pulling down on it. Where as an air tool will only apply a rotating force, not twisting, and hence should be better, but I came here to see if that theory was true or a load of rubbish.

Regardless, breaker bar is not a possibility due to lack of ground clearance......

Would an air ratchet be a better option? My mate has one I can borrow if needs be.

When I've had stubborn bolts I've always worked it in and out (bit like cutting threads with a tap) with a breaker bar (short one once it starts to move) and managed to avoid shearing bolts.

 

[h3rman]

Yeah, have also been told to work it in & out, but what can I use to start it if a large breaker bar wont have enough clearance? I can try with the breaker bar first tho.

 

[Fergus]

Any chance of you getting some heat onto them before you start?

 

[h3rman]

Probably could yea, I have a gas torch that runs off a propane/butane mix. Wanting to get a MAPP gas torch because they are hotter, but a bit tight on cash just now.

Would the propane/butane torch be of any use? Have had limited success with it in the past, and some say it's because it can't heat up the surrounding area quick enough, so ends up heating the bolt too.

Actually, just had a thought, my mate works at a motor factors that sell some kind of freeze off spray. Would it be an idea to heat up the surrounding area as much as possible, then dowse the bolts in the freeze off spray to make them rapidly contract and hopefully break the bonds?

Another trick I have heard of is using candle wax??

My only concern with heat is setting the old bushes on fire when doing the lower bolts on each side, will just have to be careful with those.

 

[steveselvage]

PLUSGAS every evening until you do the job, dont waste your time and money on anything else.

 

[eddie49]

Wire brush and repeated oiling is good prep, then 6-point impact socket and air wrench on full whack. Yes, it may shear, but you'll just have to deal with that if it happens. Back & forth with a breaker bar is just as likely to twist the head off the bolt as it is to ease it out. An air ratchet won't shift it; just make sure the wrench is in reverse !

 

[Davie]

Freeze spray wouldnt be called Super Crack (honestly!) would it?

Made by Normfest and their stuff always seems to be fairly good.

If it is, make sure he gets the newer formula. That goes down to -40 apparently and seems to do the job. I work in a factors that sell it as well.

 

[madkayaker]

i have often tried to tighten first as that often break off any rust and you lessen the risk of rounding off as all the force is put onto different corner of the nut. use flat drive sockets if you can they have a lot better grip on the nut but sometimes take a bit of persuading to go on after that lots of penetrating oil

 

[h3rman]

PLUSGAS every evening until you do the job, dont waste your time and money on anything else.

Heard excellent things about that, and was what I wanted, but can only find it for sale online on eBay & RS Components, so my mate is getting me some 3 in 1 penetrating oil from his work along with that freeze spray.

Wire brush and repeated oiling is good prep, then 6-point impact socket and air wrench on full whack. Yes, it may shear, but you'll just have to deal with that if it happens. Back & forth with a breaker bar is just as likely to twist the head off the bolt as it is to ease it out. An air ratchet won't shift it; just make sure the wrench is in reverse !

Yeah, that was the original plan to be honest, clean up, then oil daily until I actually attempt it. However, was not gonna go full whack. My mate (ex-Honda mechanic) said to ease the impact gun on which can take a bit of trial & error, but seeing as mine has 3 settings, he suggested to start with the lowest setting on the gun so it is less likely to just snap it off.

Freeze spray wouldnt be called Super Crack (honestly!) would it?

Made by Normfest and their stuff always seems to be fairly good.

If it is, make sure he gets the newer formula. That goes down to -40 apparently and seems to do the job. I work in a factors that sell it as well.

No idea what it's called, he's getting it for me tonight along with some 3 in 1 penetration spray/oil. He said the tin says it goes down to -43*C

So plan was to heat up the surrounding area as much as possible, then spray the bolt with the freeze spray and put on the impact gun right away.

i have often tried to tighten first as that often break off any rust and you lessen the risk of rounding off as all the force is put onto different corner of the nut. use flat drive sockets if you can they have a lot better grip on the nut but sometimes take a bit of persuading to go on after that lots of penetrating oil

Again, tightening is another thing I have heard being mentioned, will try that first, but if it's a no go, then the impact gun will prob be coming out.


So, basically, so far my plan of action is....

1. Clean with wire brush and oil daily until I attempt it.

2. When attempting it, heat up the surrounding area first, then spray freeze spray onto bolt and attempt to tighten first with hand ratchet to get it going.

3. If step 2 fails, do the same again, but this time try with the impact gun on the lowest setting in reverse.

4. If step 3 fails, try again on higher setting & repeat.

5. By this point the bolt will have sheared off and I will be in tears!

As for everyone saying to use 6-sided sockets, I only ever use 6-sided sockets unless hammering a smaller socket onto an already rounded nut/bolt.

Cheers for the tips/info guys, really hope these come out smoothly, otherwise I WILL actually cry!

 

[madkayaker]

if all else fails cold chisel and big hammer then drill out studs and re tap

 

[hareng]

You are in luck nip down to Halfords these saved a lot of parts removal on front ARB same as you on axle stands.
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_216036_langId_-1_categoryId_165572
Find i rarely use a socket now and flex head!

Never had any success with off the shelfs like Plusgas the only one that has worked where all others have failed is LT8.

 

[h3rman]

if all else fails cold chisel and big hammer then drill out studs and re tap

I HATE going down that route, but TBH, if I have to, then the impact wrench will have taken the head of the bolt off, so no need for the cold chisel. Need to get some left handed drill bits just incase the worst happens, anyone know where I can get some? Pref a shop I can just walk into, so no waiting for delivery, etc.

You are in luck nip down to Halfords these saved a lot of parts removal on front ARB same as you on axle stands.
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_216036_langId_-1_categoryId_165572
Find i rarely use a socket now and flex head!

Never had any success with off the shelfs like Plusgas the only one that has worked where all others have failed is LT8.

Cheers mate, but surely a 6-sided socket on a ratchet or small bar will give me more leverage than those flexi-heads? There is no room for a proper breaker bar on axle stands, but plendy of room for a 250mm long 1/2" bar with a flexi-head or 1/2" ratchet.

 

[NigelAylesbury]

Removing rear ARB bushing bolts...

PLUSGAS every evening until you do the job, dont waste your time and money on anything else.

What he said.....

 

[richard s]

i would try it with a ratchet first then breaker bar then the impact gun
if the oil has worked it should come off ok once it cracks