Piston rings/seals for a turbo,fabrication ?

[Barking Mat]

Has anyone here ever made piston rings? I've just been reading up on it and it's not as straight forward as I thought, it's just that I've dismantled my turbo and can't get hold of a rebuild kit. The seals in a turbo are essentially piston rings and I was wondering if the tolerances in the turbo seal are as important as a piston ring in a combustion engine, answer, probably yes.
They're less than an inch in o.d. And yes my car failed its emission test. Diesel volvo 940 for reference. Thanks.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Buy a decent car?
Sorry.

There are firms out there who manufacture piston rings, I'd expect that using such a firm would be far better than trying to make them yourself as the tolerance, material, heat treatment etc won't be simple.

 

[Rig Pig]

Is the car burning oil? Or do you just need to shut the pump down a bit??

 

[johnik]

where did you look for the parts ?.
normally if you have the make and model you should be able to get them,doubt it would be unique to that model ?.

 

[Barking Mat]

Burning oil, the opacity test failed, on tick over to high revs and back again clouds of black smoke. It is high mileage but I like the fact there's no electrickery on the engine, so generally I can fix it, cost of a rebuilt turbo is ouch, unable to find a chra, the middle bit of the turbo, so I pulled it apart and they're really not that complicated, obviously rebuilding it without the balancing equipment you only get it 90% balanced, but that'll have to do, still waiting on the shipping cost of a rebuild kit, about 38 quid, if it's not a obsolete model, it's a Garrett, same as on a Vw LT. Second hand turbos rare and will probably die anyway.

Specialised company for a ring or two, any ideas on cost? Yes a decent car would be nice, but can't afford one, what is a decent car anyway? I settle for something I can fix, reliable, which only goes to garages for tyres and well more economical would be nice....

I was just thinking as I have a bar of some sort of cast iron, a lathe, and not a lot of time or money, am I just wasting my time? I could probably relatively accurately turn a ring, would have a go at slotting it and annealing it, I don't quite get how once you've taken out 15% of the overall diameter in the slot, and you pop it in it is perfectly circular, still reading articles.

 

[Barking Mat]

Not unique, just obsolete, volvo 7xx and 9xx VW lt it's the 6 cylinder Vw Audi engine, all getting on for 20 years old, I've been through ebay, the net, a good handful of uk based turbo suppliers and parts suppliers, with the refs off the turbo etc, etc but as expansive as the internet is something's aren't there.
Have left all the paperwork with the refs at work, reference of turbo 072143709, hang on I'll find it.

 

[Barking Mat]

Definitely a Garrett, 46679-1 , thanks Mr Fuzzy, these seem to be for the petrol models, the volvo red block engines are rated by petrol heads as you can uprate them, I am a diesel head and rejected petrol scars some years ago. I'd get a horse, but it's too far to work, and it would go lame.

 

[Barking Mat]

Thanks mate, I think but will have to check tomorrow, a tb340? I've been in contact with turbo rebuild, who might have a kit, but they haven't got back to me yet, but I'll chase that up in the morn, but kits and chra's, hens teeth, I thought the modern Saabs had GM engines same as vauxhalls, with the electric injection pumps which melt internally after a while.

 

[Barking Mat]

The T3 kit at 25 quid, from turbo rebuild, does look damn like the bits I need. How many different models can there be, I wonder.
Thank you Mr Fuzzy you are a star. I owe you a pint. Thanks.

 

[Barking Mat]

The t3 kit is £25 he said my one would be £38 if he had it, so I'll phone tomorrow and check all of this, thanks again Mr Fuzzy.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

A cousin couldn't find rings for his 1930's car so he started sourcing cast iron drainpipe, cutting into slices then X-raying to find slices with the right grain pattern for machining. All this was done at "work" where he was a lecturer in the subject at a uni so "part and parcel" of his job and doubt it'd be cost effective for anybody else. In the end cousin was offered a set of rings and snapped them up as far less hassle then he was having even finding the right material to machine from.

 

[johnik]

black smoke is fuel,oil burning is blue

 

[Barking Mat]

I've had this conversation with I don't know how many mechanics, and yes I technically agree, but I've NEVER seen blue smoke. I am technically deranged, and red green colour blind, so I can't see this effecting my ability to see blue smoke, and the number of waste oil burners which lash black smoke.......

Suffice to say I count myself as a fairly competent diesel mechanic, it's not the injectors, it is the turbo.

Apparently today is a bank holiday in the uk. Which is why I couldn't contact a turbo rebuild company, however I have spent my day at work and found all the refs to my turbo:

It's a Garrett TB0349 fitted to a D24tic B24 volvo lump.

Refs continue: 072145703. 466794-001
CHRA: 409853-0061

Fascinating eh?

 

[johnik]

i,m colour blind as well,helps when you are doing wiring under a dark dashboard .
i have been a mechanic all my life,now retired to the coast so know where you are coming from,any chance you can start the motor with the turbo off,obviously re-route the turbo oil feed line and see if the smoke dies down ?.
if it has an intercooler,is that full of oil ?.

 

[Barking Mat]

Yep, was discussing this with a mate earlier, black smoke fuel issues, blue oil, if your inlet is sucking in oil mist, you'll have bad combustion, pointing to fuel, injectors. I had this engine running sweet before I did the engine swap, but one silly afternoon I blocked the crankcase vent and pumped 3 litres of oil through the turbo, inter cooler and exhaust, hence changed the lot including the turbo for one that I knew smoke, turbo that is. Hence the turbo rebuild etc...it's not the motor or the injectors when I've changed the rest and it still smokes you can say I told you so. (Light hearted humour).
Yep, was discussing this with a mate earlier, black smoke fuel issues, blue oil, if your inlet is sucking in oil mist, you'll have bad combustion, pointing to fuel, injectors. I had this engine running sweet before I did the engine swap, but one silly afternoon I blocked the crankcase vent and pumped 3 litres of oil through the turbo, inter cooler and exhaust, hence changed the lot including the turbo for one that I knew smoke, turbo that is. Hence the turbo rebuild etc...it's not the motor or the injectors when I've changed the rest and it still smokes you can say I told you so. (Light hearted humour).

 

[Wedg1e]

Yep, was discussing this with a mate earlier, black smoke fuel issues, blue oil, if your inlet is sucking in oil mist, you'll have bad combustion, pointing to fuel, injectors. I had this engine running sweet before I did the engine swap, but one silly afternoon I blocked the crankcase vent and pumped 3 litres of oil through the turbo, inter cooler and exhaust, hence changed the lot including the turbo for one that I knew smoke, turbo that is. Hence the turbo rebuild etc...it's not the motor or the injectors when I've changed the rest and it still smokes you can say I told you so. (Light hearted humour).
Yep, was discussing this with a mate earlier, black smoke fuel issues, blue oil, if your inlet is sucking in oil mist, you'll have bad combustion, pointing to fuel, injectors. I had this engine running sweet before I did the engine swap, but one silly afternoon I blocked the crankcase vent and pumped 3 litres of oil through the turbo, inter cooler and exhaust, hence changed the lot including the turbo for one that I knew smoke, turbo that is. Hence the turbo rebuild etc...it's not the motor or the injectors when I've changed the rest and it still smokes you can say I told you so. (Light hearted humour).

If I turn my monitor on its side, this post is in stereo...

 

[Barking Mat]

Looks like I hit the post button twice, oops. The parts are on their way apparently, thanks again to Mr Fuzzy.

 

[Sean]

have you any part number on the GARRET? i pulled a nearly new one off a 1.9 VW transporter and its been sat taking up garage space for too long - it has the "toilet bowl" seal but im pretty sure the outlet manifold is switchable as is only 3 bolts holding it on.

 

[AndyStobbs]

Have only skimmed this but speak to Melett if you haven't got parts for turbo yet.

 

[Barking Mat]

Hiya, folks, yep checked inter cooler , air filter, etc etcetera , still waiting for bits to turn up.........