No penetration/burn through mig

  1. Willlaneo New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    Hey guys,

    I’m super new to welding and just trying to teach myself at home. I’m trying to learn with 16 gauge sheet metal because I think if I can do that well I can do thicker stuff easier in the future.

    Anyway, my issue is that my welder doesn’t show the set Volts or Amps when you are setting it so I have to set it up by feel (which I know nothing about). I am trying to plug weld two pieces of sheet metal together (using a reasonably small hole so I don’t have to do a circular motion just yet). At the moment, no matter what I change, all I can seem to get is basically a volcano, where the pool doesn’t spread out but just builds up on top of itself and refuses to penetrate or spread. If I turn the voltage up even the tinniest bit it burns through and same with the amps.

    I am currently running fluxcore wite that has a thickness of 0.9mm.

    What is causing this? Is it the voltage, amps, should I use normal mig wire with gas, is my stick out too far/close.

    Any advice would be super helpful
     
  2. Munkul Member

    Messages:
    1,006
    Cumbria, UK
    The problem with fluxcore is that it needs to be ran hot enough to "hiss" in a spray-transfer, not the frying-bacon crackle that you want from normal mig wire. This means that it's really not suitable for thin sheet metal work.

    If I were you I'd save myself a whole load of frustration and get some plain steel wire and a hobbyweld type bottle of gas.
     
    RonA and Memmeddu like this.
  3. eddie49 Member

    Hello and welcome to the Forum!
    Successful plug welding is not easy. A small hole makes it harder, use an 8mm hole.
    However, to begin with just run simple straight beads on 2 or 3mm thick shiny clean steel. Post photos here for comment and advice.
    What make and model of MIG welder are you using?
     
    Memmeddu likes this.
  4. Morrisman

    Morrisman Forum Supporter

    Biggest mistake I made, when I first bought a Mig welder, was running too much wire speed. I had it in my thick skull that it was necessary and spent months making unsatisfactory welds on a car body I was building before I read up on the subject properly.

    That may well have been about the time I joined this venerable forum, a decade or so ago. :D
     
  5. Willlaneo New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    From what I read, I thought this could be the issue. I have a bottle of Argon and sheet metal wire that I will throw on and give it a try. Thank you
     
  6. Willlaneo New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    Hi Eddie, I can run a basic straight bead and a butt weld on my friends' welder but I can't seem to get it right on my welder. The only difference I can find is being unable to see the Volts and Amps while setting it up and the flux core wire.

    I have a maxmig 230D, here is a link to it as it is not a name brand welder https://www.machine.co.nz/product/w...lete-with-mig-torch-earth-clamp-dual-reg-new/
     
  7. Willlaneo New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    This is a super newbie question but what does too much wire speed do? Will this cause large pieces of wire to drop off than what should/is actually melted causing the heat to have to be used to try melt this extra wire and not penetrate the metal properly/burn through?
     
  8. Munkul Member

    Messages:
    1,006
    Cumbria, UK
    at the voltages used on a bodywork sized welder, too much wirespeed for the voltage will result in ropy looking beads with no wetting and poor sidewalls - ie, a mess.

    Remember, the wirespeed and voltage used for fluxcore is WAY different to that of solid wire and gas.

    It's easier with readouts, because you just get an idea of wirespeed and voltage needed for whatever thickness you're welding. But it's not really a necessary thing - once you get used to your machine, especially for thin metal. For heavier stuff you should really have a reference for wirespeed, and trim voltage to suit.

    I hope it's not pure argon you've got - you need a bit of CO2 in there for plain steel.
     
    Morrisman and Willlaneo like this.
  9. Nick DV

    Nick DV Member

    Messages:
    158
    Location:
    Southampton
    Just my two pennies worth, take any advice from here but the best advice I had when I started was to get some scrap metal, play with the various settings on your welder and practice, practice, practice! When you've done this then practice some more :thumbup:
     
    Yamhon, fixerupper and Willlaneo like this.
  10. Morrisman

    Morrisman Forum Supporter

    Too much wire pouring into the weld causes it to not melt fast enough, weld piles up, doesn’t fuse to the job etc.
     
    Sean and Willlaneo like this.
  11. daedalusminos Member

    Messages:
    687
    Location:
    Norwich
    A plug weld is not much different from a lap joint so set your machine for that first.

    6 - 8mm hole for plug welding works well and make sure both parts are in contact as that will affect the weld.
     
    Willlaneo likes this.
  12. If it’s straight Argon it won’t be suitable
     
    Willlaneo likes this.
  13. Country Joe Argoshield Dark

    Messages:
    1,236
    Location:
    Somerset - United Kingdom
    Hi there, and welcome to the Forum.

    Maybe try setting your wire feeding speed by turning it up far too high, until you feel it pushing/stabbing against the work-piece - and then back it off (obviously with your other hand) until it stops stabbing and a little way short of this you'll hopefully find the sweet-spot - well, in so far as gasless wire has one!

    The same method will also work with normal solid wire.

    All the Best,
    CJ
     
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  14. Country Joe Argoshield Dark

    Messages:
    1,236
    Location:
    Somerset - United Kingdom
    Just as backpurge says - pure argon, without any co2 content, will result in quite tall, very cold-looking welds.

    All the Best,
    CJ
     
    Willlaneo likes this.
  15. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Messages:
    4,144
    uk Bristol
    I know it's an inverter but Voltage AND Amperage adjustment !...
     
  16. Country Joe Argoshield Dark

    Messages:
    1,236
    Location:
    Somerset - United Kingdom
    You've lost me, there!
    CJ
     
  17. Country Joe Argoshield Dark

    Messages:
    1,236
    Location:
    Somerset - United Kingdom
    I've caught up!
    The references in the first post.

    Relieved,
    CJ
     
  18. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Messages:
    4,144
    uk Bristol
    Ye I looked at the linked ad just in case it was a mig + arc machine but not.
     
    Country Joe likes this.
  19. eddie49 Member

    From the photograph, this Maxmig 230D inverter MIG sold in NZ does have pots to adjust both voltage and current.
    So does the "Warrior 170" from Phil Weeks Welding Machines, Bath :

    "Current adjustment range MIG 25-175A
    Current adjustment MMA welding 10-160A
    Voltage adjustment MIG 11-26V"
     
  20. Don’t follow you there, all MIG sets have volts and amps adjustment
     
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