New (to me Mig)

  1. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    I bought a Mig off Johnseat yesterday a cebora boxer195.
    Got some gas today and chopped up some 3mm wall angle for a half hour play. Never owned a Mig before but it was a nice deal on a decent machine so I took the plunge. I’m not gonna get into loads of pics of poxy Mig runs the forum is full of those but I am quite surprised with what it says and what it actually does.
    I had ambitions of fitting a 20amp c type breaker dedicated supply for it. At the mo I have a 16B. Which has never let me down maxing my tigs out. However after today a 16C is all I need I can use the thing in 7 out of 8 voltage settings appropriate wire speed and it’s tripped it twice on surge. On setting 6 it holds out strong.
    Now the really strange part.
    13amp plug/16amp breaker I popped on my trusted newly calibrated amp meter. Voltage setting 7 out of 8 wire speed 2/3 of the way round and asked the Mrs to photograph my amp meter. So it’s not maxed out, it’s a 195 Mig. It’s running on a 13amp plug and the meter is calibrated a month ago to a 4amp error at 1000 amps. Explain this one to me.
     
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    Petersworkshop likes this.
  2. MattH

    MattH Member

    Messages:
    3,579
    Location:
    Bristol
    It’s just inrush current and is transient.
    Your meter must be faster than the trip time on the breaker.
     
  3. MattH

    MattH Member

    Messages:
    3,579
    Location:
    Bristol
    Sorry just realised this was on the output.
     
  4. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Yes that’s dc current been recorded while I’m welding
    She said it peaked at 220.
     
  5. arther dailey Member

    Messages:
    3,178
    Location:
    Southampton England
    its italian,bound to have a bit of poke under the hood !:)
     
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  6. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    I understand this but when people ask this question run a transformer Mig on a 13amp plug/16 amp breaker etc the usual reply is 150-160 max which is what I was expected. Over 200 I never thought I’d get that.
    Yes current is a strange thing but that’s a grossly underestimated machine. Not even maxed out yet thumping way above it’s 195 rate. I’ll have a go at measuring voltage tomorrow mate.
     
  7. arther dailey Member

    Messages:
    3,178
    Location:
    Southampton England
    Have you checked what fuse is in the plug? often people "uprate " them.
     
  8. arther dailey Member

    Messages:
    3,178
    Location:
    Southampton England
    also be interesting to check input current at those settings.
     
  9. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    I put the fuse in.
    I didn’t “uprate” it. Tbh I don’t expect the fuse to blow. I’d of expected the breaker to go first and in fairness it is right on its limit. It’s tripped a couple of time on start up surge but then it is a 200 plus amp setting so I expect it to trip. But it’s coping much better than I’d expect it too. I’m gonna swap the breaker for a 16 amp c type and leave it alone. I’ve simply no need to attempt any more out of it.
     
  10. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Yes I can put a volt meter in the ring. I don’t see how it makes a difference measuring current with the volt meter applied. We already know what current I’ve got out of it and x amount of voltage on point 7 will always be the same being a constant voltage power source. I can’t imagine the voltage is going to fluctuate much but I’ll measure it and let you know the read out.
     
  11. arther dailey Member

    Messages:
    3,178
    Location:
    Southampton England
    cebora s are good tools, I would nt part with my 130, underated machines thats for sure.by that I mean often overlooked.
     
  12. arther dailey Member

    Messages:
    3,178
    Location:
    Southampton England
    input amperage at that setting will be interesting.
     
  13. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    At 195amps dc according to the data plate I should be feeding it 28amps from my supply. In fairness I was exceeding it. I did trip the breaker so it’s drawing too much at that setting but it’s better than I thought. At voltage point 6 out of 8 with appropriate wire speed I was getting 180 ish. It was happy at that even at start up
     
  14. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Well measuring welding voltage and current from an inspection and a wps point of veiw used to be a daily job for me hence the up to date calibration on my meters. I’ve never seen arc voltage fluctuations of a few volts unless the machine has been faulty. 0.5 of a volt yes but never any more and I’ve put my terminals across more than I can remember. I’m not a leccy techy but from my experience the voltage should be solid. Easy enough to test. I’ve done it enough times.
     
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  15. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    I thought you meant fluctuations on the meter while welding of a few volts. I was gonna say because a 3 volt fluctuation during welding is very easily the difference between spray and globular transfer which simply should not happen. I’ll hook them up tonight and report.
     
  16. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    I’ll even get ac draw current on the machine so that it’s all there.
     
  17. daleyd

    daleyd Member

    Messages:
    6,041
    Location:
    Wrexham, North Wales
    Don’t forget also a c type breaker will carry x times rated current for some time before tripping (1.5 x for up to 20 secs?) , it could well be pulling more than the 16 amps while your welding - the longer you carry on the more likely you’ll push it into the tripping point but if you’ve only done short test runs...
     
  18. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Mine is a B type dale. I’d like to up rate it to a C.
     
  19. daleyd

    daleyd Member

    Messages:
    6,041
    Location:
    Wrexham, North Wales
    Sorry misread your post :thumbup:
     
  20. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    18,137
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Some results.
    Today. It was tripping the breaker consistently until I realised my 2.2kw heater was plugged in right next to it. Turned that off and away we went. I didn’t get current drawn as I need to whip off the covers or split a lead to do so and this had to be quite quick. I’ll check that another time.
    Incoming voltage 244ac
    Out going voltage 24.9-25.2 dc
    Outgoing current 191-211dc
    Stick out 10-12mm
    Voltage setting 7 out of 8
    wire speed setting 8.5 out of 11.
     
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