Kemppi or fronius

  1. wallopadonkey

    wallopadonkey Expert Grinder !

    Messages:
    255
    North Wales, UK
    Hey guys I need to get a combination of new machines for work I have option on the following

    6 x fronius magic wave 230i or
    6x Kemppi mastertig 2300 mls machines

    And 6 each of either
    Fronius transsteel 2700c
    Or Kemppi kempact 253 r

    Price includes pedals and torches etc
    Any reviews / recommendations etc opinions

    Based in the uk — looking for recommendations.
     
  2. brockenhammer Member

    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Freiburg, Germany
    Hi,
    I had a Kemppi 2300MLS (with ACX panel) which was a very nice machine, but the user interface was not very intuitive to work with. The arc was very nice and I also like the ergonomics of the Kemppi pedal which operates very smooth.
    I`m also not a big fan of the former fronius generations with their hidden menues and the can bus pedal. But the arc, especially AC is very nice, and Richard who is specialiced in ally is a huge fan of it.
    But I don´t know about the newest generation, and if they still use the old pedal design.

    I would also consider the EWM Tetrix 230 AC/DC comfort 2.0
    These machines are top quality (and EWM has long experience in inverter technology), they have a very user friendly interface and the pedal works great to.
    In Germany these machines are even better priced then fronius and Kemppi.

    Kai
     
  3. Shox Dr

    Shox Dr Chief Engineer to Carlos Fandango

    Messages:
    12,542
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Cant common on the Fronius. I’ve had a mls2300 acdc for 10yrs. Very good machine, but the highend panel is not easy to use, however once you get it setup. Works a treat
     
  4. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey RH Davey Welding Supplies

    Messages:
    5,061
    Location:
    Southampton
    Get a quote from EWM, slap bang in the middle on price and every bit as good as the Fronius.
     
    Hood likes this.
  5. weldequip Forum Sponsor

    Messages:
    5,283
    Location:
    England
    Who can dispatch a service engineer to site the fastest when you have a problem. The bean counters never think of that one.
     
    Shox Dr likes this.
  6. 500e

    500e Always buy fire insurance, flood are hard to start

    Messages:
    3,103
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    If you are buying in that quantity you have a serious amount of work.
    1/ Reliability, including robustness, think with your choices this is covered
    2/ As @weldequip says Service time to site is essential, have the company's dedicated service engineers, or are you relying on local suppliers, If so do you have a faith in their back up, knowledge of the product you are purchasing.
    3/ What is warranty period, do you get a like for like machine if yours has to be uplifted.
    4/ Ease of use & if using semi skilled can you lock settings or at least keep them in the ball park.
    You are placing a relatively large order so price & warranty should be reflected
    The cheapest quote is not always a good buy, found this out very early on in my business career cost me a lot of money & grief
    Bought A Repco 4 wheel aligner one of the first in that market problem was it was not that reliable & service was in France :vsad:
    Never forgot that lesson
     
    Shox Dr likes this.
  7. wallopadonkey

    wallopadonkey Expert Grinder !

    Messages:
    255
    North Wales, UK
    I actually wanted to put portamig in but I was overruled Cest la vie
     
  8. wallopadonkey

    wallopadonkey Expert Grinder !

    Messages:
    255
    North Wales, UK
    Teaching college it’s for students to learn Ali and stainless on then I’ve gotta get 10 more in cpl months
     
  9. wallopadonkey

    wallopadonkey Expert Grinder !

    Messages:
    255
    North Wales, UK
    Migs just for 6” test piece billets in bays t fillet, outside corner, lap, butt and pipe to plate
    Pretty low duty cycle
     
  10. angellonewolf

    angellonewolf Member

    Messages:
    3,041
    Location:
    bristol england
    @Richard. might beable to addd a bit of input i believe hes poss had both makes not actual models but could help with an opinion
     
  11. DTS Member

    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Rugby
    Menai? Done through tender normally isn’t it, or it was when I quoted for an orbital system. Can’t beat trying the kit to be honest. I think EWM have supplied a college in Wales recently?
     
  12. Shox Dr

    Shox Dr Chief Engineer to Carlos Fandango

    Messages:
    12,542
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I’d stay away from the Kemmpi then, but then young’n’s might find it easy:dontknow:.

    R-tech with individual pot type adjustment would be easier to learn on, you can see at a glance where everything is set. Cant do that with a digital display
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  13. 500e

    500e Always buy fire insurance, flood are hard to start

    Messages:
    3,103
    Location:
    Somerset UK
    As aTIG beginner @Shox that's what I find with the Jasic it would be easier to run my eye along a row of knobs than have to step through the menu,
    Also easier to adjust one parameter without changing something else.
    Still as it's on loan cant moan to much owner says he wont be back for at least another 12 months:thumbup::thumbup:
     
    Shox Dr likes this.
  14. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    16,241
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    For a college I’d not have either.
    Both very good machines but both a total faff.
    The kempi has everything but nothing is logical on that acx panel it just resembles a map of the London Underground with all those coloured wiggly lines all over the panel. I did have one and I soon moved it on after I was spending more time consulting the manual than welding. Once set up you can’t fault it. Welds every bit as nicely as the best of them but not something I’d be putting in a college.
    Fronius’s I’ve owned these too. Panels look way simpler from the front with usually nothing more than a knob and a couple of buttons. “Great” I hear you say. Well no because between those 3 buttons you’ve got nine million parameters and they are all in hidden menus. Press this while holding this and twist that while pressing this then you can adjust this. A total ball ache. Great welder again when set up but not one I’d be putting into a college for training students. I’d be going with something simple but sophisticated.
    Something where you can scroll across the machine diagram and each point it clearly lights up and the value clearly easy to see what it is and the value your adjusting.
    My current machine is made by lorch and it does exactly that. Perfect for students easy and clear. Top quality gear. Welds as good as the rest.
    If I was looking for 6 AC/DC tigs for a college then the 220T control pro panel would be in the short list.
     
    daleyd likes this.
  15. brockenhammer Member

    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Freiburg, Germany
    Hi Richard,
    I´m not shure if I remember right. I used to work with the Lorch T Pro 300 a while ago.
    I didn´t liked the adjustment of the pulse settings, because you have to press 2 buttons parallel to enter the menue. Right??

    Therefore I liked the EWM layout more. There are hidden menues, but just for very specilialiced functions beginners usually don´t use.

    The miller interface is also very nice to work with.

    One more option might be the Stel 221, which works totally great.
    The interface is not as easy to work with like EWM or Miller, but not as user unfriendly like Kemppi or Fronius.
    I don´t know if there are good sources for Stel in the UK.

    Kai
     
  16. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    16,241
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Nope not the case on the 220
    You just select pulse welding on the bottom right and just scroll across to set each condition in turn. No two button pressing or hidden menu to do the pulse. It’s just easy peasy how it should be.
     
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  17. brockenhammer Member

    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Freiburg, Germany
    Hi Richard,

    Thanks, maybe I don´t remember right. How about the frequency setting and the times for peak and base current? Also scrolling with the two buttons on top, and then dialling with the wheel? Then I was wrong and it works like it should do.

    It might have been the V 24 mobil I tried and which was not as intuitive (but there are so many options with these machines...)

    Anyway. If there is someone interested in buying many machines for a school, there should be a presentation of the machines by the distributor/seller/shop and the chance to test them.
     
  18. Appyasme1

    Appyasme1 Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Go for the Kemppi.Once you get into the parameters is`t simple
     
  19. Richard.

    Richard. Member

    Messages:
    16,241
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Just keep scrolling left or right. The pulse frequency and duty settings come up as you scroll through. It’s a very simple panel. Perfect for students. Suits me anyway cos I can’t cope with complicated machines
     
    500e and Appyasme1 like this.
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