Help with buying small gasless mig welder

[Barry42]

Hi, First post here. I have many years experience of using Mig and Tig in a auto workshop, although maybe only once a week etc as and when needed. But retired now, and I have a few jobs that need some welding involving mild steel between 2 and 3mm thick and maybe a small bit of 4mm. As I dont expect to use it very often afterwards, I dont feel it is worth buying a full set up. So been looking at a gasless system that will plug into a normal household 13amp plug socket, without tripping RCD's.

When I do a search on Google the pages are endless with welders offering so much like mig, tig, arc etc, but as I only needed mig, I narrowed it down to a Draper 70051 120amp mig welder. The reason for my choice, is that it is a known name, it only does Mig, has a solid metal case, and even a parts list with part numbers for a possible repair. Do you think I am on the right track, or is there something else that I should be looking at.

 

[Popcorn]

If 2mm is the finest your gonna weld get yourself a cheap Chinese throw away stick welder and some 1.6mm rods.
I got this one and it's still going strong

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ROJOO-Inverter-Complete-Portable-Equipment/dp/B0BZ78F4H8/ref=sr_1_31?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.O7imPU4pFZhvaUSbzyXyF3IftHB8tBeJNejmzgmLaPSufvg_shRT9Xs2DjLCf2eZaAVgbpaeIelRW65GkSjf4D-3M30ZmhBEgw8SJgP0fH56-qmO89yt9STXjncN_MaZzzJTSC4Zv_rkXP29O1SeAcIotxcJzoB2SbTzz50oQDjD3XlL0YKT_hHqa1ETZ1-fRxoDXxDyTqPyDtUvtVn7AvSeDc2X1Dj3JqBGnsJGl_mxfdMY4ff7scNFD0JpKwEjC7UvMlCJNrCp6pCrQapuGjX3NsEDZr4o7XUBgYKyiEE.o31pzHSKP6gvDM6hlpjkOh7-dV86irOeirYh-ylU310&dib_tag=se&keywords=stick+welder&qid=1727626739&sr=8-31

 

[Barry42]

If 2mm is the finest your gonna weld get yourself a cheap Chinese throw away stick welder and some 1.6mm rods.
I got this one and it's still going strong

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ROJOO-Inverter-Complete-Portable-Equipment/dp/B0BZ78F4H8/ref=sr_1_31?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.O7imPU4pFZhvaUSbzyXyF3IftHB8tBeJNejmzgmLaPSufvg_shRT9Xs2DjLCf2eZaAVgbpaeIelRW65GkSjf4D-3M30ZmhBEgw8SJgP0fH56-qmO89yt9STXjncN_MaZzzJTSC4Zv_rkXP29O1SeAcIotxcJzoB2SbTzz50oQDjD3XlL0YKT_hHqa1ETZ1-fRxoDXxDyTqPyDtUvtVn7AvSeDc2X1Dj3JqBGnsJGl_mxfdMY4ff7scNFD0JpKwEjC7UvMlCJNrCp6pCrQapuGjX3NsEDZr4o7XUBgYKyiEE.o31pzHSKP6gvDM6hlpjkOh7-dV86irOeirYh-ylU310&dib_tag=se&keywords=stick+welder&qid=1727626739&sr=8-31

Thank You Popcorn, The last time I used a Arc welder was probably back in the 1990's, then moving company's, I got trained up on Mig and Tig and used them ever since, hence the reason why I thought of a Mig machine.

 

[Shedendman]

I know parkside do one,and where ever you buy it you'll get your 3 yrs warranty
heres one on ebay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35463601...nMNAobWIWOvMBu2QMIb6eloEU=|tkp:Bk9SR8q4lOvHZA

 

[Misterg]

I narrowed it down to a Draper 70051 120amp mig welder. The reason for my choice, is that it is a known name, it only does Mig, has a solid metal case, and even a parts list with part numbers for a possible repair. Do you think I am on the right track, or is there something else that I should be looking at.

I can't really help with alternatives, but the Draper 70051 "Storm Force" welder rings a lot of alarm bells for me - it's a very old fashioned machine:

1) It only seems to have a transformer inside, so is AC only.
2) The duty cycle is woeful : 10% @120A / 60% @50A

For the same sort of money (£170) I would think you could get a DC machine with switchable polarity so it could do gas-less or conventional MIG if you decided you wanted it at a later date. Most of them can also do stick.

A quick search throws up the Clarke MIG120 for another £30 (not a recommendation; never used one, but it is a 'known name', potentially from a shop) that has double the duty cycle at 120A and would let you do gas-less or gas MIG or stick at a later date if you wanted to.

Clarke MIG120 Multi 120A MIG / MMA / TIG Inverter Welder (230V) - Machine Mart - Machine Mart

www.machinemart.co.uk

 

[Shedendman]

I'd 2nd the clarkes stuff,my choice if i had to in the same shoes would be

Clarke MIG103NG 90 Amp No Gas MIG Welder - Machine Mart - Machine Mart

www.machinemart.co.uk

 

[eddie49]

Hello and welcome to the Forum.
The picture of the dataplate for that Draper 70051 MIG on Page 5 of the "Instruction" download shows an electrical symbol of two overlapping circles, which represents a transformer. There is no rectifier - and probably no inductor ( choke ) either. It is just a transformer in a box, at a very high price. With AC output, no inductor, a minimum current of 50 Amps, and gasless fluxcore wire, that welder will be quite a hot potato!

 

[Barry42]

I'd 2nd the clarkes stuff,my choice if i had to in the same shoes would be

Clarke MIG103NG 90 Amp No Gas MIG Welder - Machine Mart - Machine Mart

www.machinemart.co.uk

Interesting that it is only 90amp and there say it can weld up to 4mm mild steel. Not sure if their next model up which is 100amp but with two cotrol knobs for power and wire speed is worth the extra.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/100a-no-gas-inverter-mig-welder/​

 

[eddie49]

Those two Clarke MIG welders are not comparable. The 90-Amp one is a traditional transformer-based machine, with four step-switched power ( voltage ) ranges. The other, with two control knobs, is a modern electronic inverter, with fully-variable voltage and wirespeed.

As for amperage, the rule-of-thumb is 30 to 40 Amps per millimetre of material thickness ( or 1 amp per thousandth of an inch ).

A transformer machine is simple, reliable, and generally easy to fix. An inverter is smaller, lighter, more efficient, often cheaper, offers fully-variable power control, and usually can also work as an Arc ( MMA ) welder. However, they are complex and can be unreliable and impossible to repair.

Neither of those Clarke machines represent value for money. They cannot be polarity-switched to allow future upgrade from gasless to gas ( torch positive ), and the inverter does not offer Arc mode, which is normally included with inverter MIGs rated at 100-plus Amps. [ The MIG process needs Constant Voltage - CV - power, arc needs Constant Current - CC. The electronics of an inverter can do both. ]
For alternatives, use the Forum's Search facility to read opinions and reviews about other brands, such as StaticArc, BlackLine, Uptime, etc.

 

[Barry42]

Those two Clarke MIG welders are not comparable. The 90-Amp one is a traditional transformer-based machine, with four step-switched power ( voltage ) ranges. The other, with two control knobs, is a modern electronic inverter, with fully-variable voltage and wirespeed.

As for amperage, the rule-of-thumb is 30 to 40 Amps per millimetre of material thickness ( or 1 amp per thousandth of an inch ).

A transformer machine is simple, reliable, and generally easy to fix. An inverter is smaller, lighter, more efficient, often cheaper, offers fully-variable power control, and usually can also work as an Arc ( MMA ) welder. However, they are complex and can be unreliable and impossible to repair.

Neither of those Clarke machines represent value for money. They cannot be polarity-switched to allow future upgrade from gasless to gas ( torch positive ), and the inverter does not offer Arc mode, which is normally included with inverter MIGs rated at 100-plus Amps. [ The MIG process needs Constant Voltage - CV - power, arc needs Constant Current - CC. The electronics of an inverter can do both. ]
For alternatives, use the Forum's Search facility to read opinions and reviews about other brands, such as StaticArc, BlackLine, Uptime, etc.

Thank You for your input, Just been looking at a StacticArc Mig140A,

• Power rating: 3kW; MIG output: 15-22V (30-140A); MMA output: 30-140A; TIG output: 20-140A; Duty cycle: 60% @ 140A; Weld thickness: Up to 4mm
  
  Available from Amazon for £139.99 which is less than the Clarkes. Am I missing something, I understand what you are saying about being unrepairable once out of warranty.

 

[iNf]

Static arc are also available from their website https://staticarcwelding.co.uk/
If you look at the top of their page there's a 10% off code.

 

[Barry42]

Static arc are also available from their website https://staticarcwelding.co.uk/
If you look at the top of their page there's a 10% off code.

A much better deal direct. Just need to make sure Im buying the right thing for me first.

 

[gaz1]

id upgrade you to the clarke 151 and you can weld up to 5mm

Clarke MIG151EN 150 Amp Turbo No Gas/Gas MIG Welder - Machine Mart - Machine Mart

www.machinemart.co.uk

with it being both if you decide to try gas just pay for a bottle get some mig wire and away you go

as for gasless wire for good wire you will pay 70.00 a roll as not all gasless wire is the same and some batches are crap

 

[eddie49]

Just been looking at a StacticArc Mig140A, Am I missing something?

That is a good deal on a decent machine, from a well-known supplier. It would do what you need, and more - i.e. Arc welding too. It will also work with gas, if you decide to use solid MIG wire and get a cylinder.

The three control knobs give full manual control over wirespeed, output voltage, and current when in Arc mode.
( You may have seen slightly more modern machines which are pre-programmed - "synergic" - where both wirespeed and voltage are varied by a single dial, often calibrated in millimetres of metal thickness. This is OK if the values are accurate - a bit like driving an automatic... )

There are separate digital displays for voltage and current ( - which is mostly related to wirespeed ). They may not be very accurate - the readings for current are often optimistic - and may only show real values whilst actually welding.

The included MIG torch is "different". It is detachable, but relies on a hollow Dinse plug for the wire, a 2-pin plug for the trigger, and a push-fit hose for the gas ( if used ). The normal standards are either a permanent fitting, or a Eurotorch, where one large plug does everything. As long as the supplied torch does not break, and the 3 metre length is enough for you, it should be O.K.

 

[eddie49]

I know parkside do one,and where ever you buy it you'll get your 3 yrs warranty
heres one on ebay

Buying a Lidl product from an eBay reseller usually means paying about double the "in-store" price, and without a Lidl till receipt, I'm not sure that you will get the 3-year warranty.

 

[Shedendman]

i'm well aware of that,i was just showing the model etc

 

[Barry42]

That is a good deal on a decent machine, from a well-known supplier. It would do what you need, and more - i.e. Arc welding too. It will also work with gas, if you decide to use solid MIG wire and get a cylinder.

The three control knobs give full manual control over wirespeed, output voltage, and current when in Arc mode.
( You may have seen slightly more modern machines which are pre-programmed - "synergic" - where both wirespeed and voltage are varied by a single dial, often calibrated in millimetres of metal thickness. This is OK if the values are accurate - a bit like driving an automatic... )

There are separate digital displays for voltage and current ( - which is mostly related to wirespeed ). They may not be very accurate - the readings for current are often optimistic - and may only show real values whilst actually welding.

The included MIG torch is "different". It is detachable, but relies on a hollow Dinse plug for the wire, a 2-pin plug for the trigger, and a push-fit hose for the gas ( if used ). The normal standards are either a permanent fitting, or a Eurotorch, where one large plug does everything. As long as the supplied torch does not break, and the 3 metre length is enough for you, it should be O.K.

Thank You very much for your time explaining the pros and cons of gasless welders, I have now ordered a 140A from StacticArc with spare spool, gloves and hammer. (I still have my welding helmet from when I was at work).

Also Thank You for other members input.

 

[chip]

That's a good choice and the customer service is there.

 

[Barry42]

That's a good choice and the customer service is there.

Very pleased with it, first time using gasless, and in fact first time welding again after about 3 years off. But getting the hang of it again before I start my project.