Got a Smartmig 162.

  1. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

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    223
    Location:
    York UK
    Managed to get hold of a nearly new GYS Smartmig 162.
    Long time since ive done any mig welding and was never really any good then.
    Must say though impressed with this bit of kit. The smart settings have been handy to put me in roughly the right place with the welder. Only thing I feel is it’s laying quite a tall bead. Maybe just me I’m not sure.
    Practice practice practice for me when I get a proper chance too.
     
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  2. Instructor_Nige Member

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    manchester
    Synergic welders.... personally I hate them, question.. can to fine tune the settings? The problem I have found with Synergic welders is you have a microchip deciding all the amp and wire feed settings.. but it my experience and humble opinion, they rarely get it right.. too many variables that are not programmable, thickness of parent metal, temperature of parent metal, weld position i.e horizontal, overhead, vertical up etc.. and that is before you consider that every welder (as in operator) has his own style and preferences, some will weld with more amps than others, some weld slow some faster, none of this is taken into consideration by the on board computer.. the results you have found are more likely to be too much wire speed or too little amps rather than your technique.

    we have a GYS 385 mig at the college... its now on ebay for sale.. partly because of the above reasons but mainly because I want to teach people to weld and set up the machines for themselves, identify issues and change settings to rectify.. so no point in a welder that does this for them.. If it has a manual feature I would use that as your instinct will be far better that the on-board computer.

    Nige
     
  3. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    York UK
    Thanks Nige.
    I don’t think this little thing is synergic in its true meaning. I think it’s gets its name more as a marketing thing based on the front panel which is really just the chart that most welders have but in a more visual style.
    My comment was poorly put to paper in the sense that you are right it’s either too much wire or amps.
    You can fully change all parameters Wire Speed is fully controllable.
    As I mentioned I was never great at mig. Which is why I’ve enrolled in a short welding course at our local college.
    Would you recommend working from amps or wire speed first in this instance of high build. Cheers.
     
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  4. pedrobedro

    pedrobedro Man at Matalan

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    My Kemppi Minarcmig has a manual mode although I hardly ever use it. You can set the type of metal and gas, metal thickness then trim the arc to suit no problems. I've used mig for the last 40 years and welcome any advances with open arms.
     
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  5. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

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    im like you Pedro I do love changes in technology that make life easier.
    arc welders are a good example. I truly can’t believe for £70 from Aldi you can get an inverter stick which is reasonable at scratch start Tig.
     
  6. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

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    Location:
    York UK
    PDG. Good evening sir.
    Your right. My description of things these days isn’t always what’s going through my mind. I should have said power settings. Thanks to this forum and the likes of people like yourself apart from keeping my mind active I’m getting up to speed easier.
    I tend to push the weld with the shroud almost in the pool angle wise I try to be just off square with the work piece facing direction of travel.
    I’m trying to master running a straight bead in the C pattern as I move along. I’ll get some better practice time tomorrow and post a pic for advice and tips. Thanks.
     
  7. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

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    223
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    York UK
    Interesting.
    I was only going by what everywhere seems to showing on vids.
    So straight weld straight motion no back and forth?
     
  8. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    Yes crank it up and go straight.
    If your having to weave and wave your settings are too cold.
     
  9. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

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    Location:
    York UK
    Thanks Richard.
    When you refer to being too cold. I’m assuming you mean by the size of weld pool forming as you make the pass.
    I tend to hold at start until reasonable weld pool forming then start the run.
    Is there a guide or rule of thumb that is a good width pool that is giving good penetration.
    To try and explain that better if you was welding 3mm mild steel plate using 0.8 wire how wide do you like to see the pool forming as you work along the run.
     
  10. Hood

    Hood If it walks like a duck....

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    11,664
    Location:
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    I have two Mig welders at present, one an R-Tech MTS255S and the other an EWM Phoenix Puls.
    I only weld Aluminium with the Mig. The R-Tech is useless in Synergic mode for Alu so it is set in manual mode. When in synergic mode all you can do is adjust the wire feed, well you can offset the voltage but as soon as you touch the wire feed again it reverts to its predetermined synergic settings.
    The EWM however is in a different league. I can tweak the voltage offset and adjusting the wire feed will not default back, the offset is still accounted for. I can also easily adjust the focus and again that will stick when adjusting the wire feed.
    The basic synergic programmes are very good but as you say every welder(operator) is different so you also have full control over every aspect of the programme from within the menu, preflow, slope, start current, times, pulse currents, voltage etc etc can all be altered and stored to suit your needs.

    Obviously it is not really fair to compare the two machines as one is about £1k new and the other probably 5 times that but it does show, at least to me, that synergic machines can and do work extremely well and much more useful for the type of work I do. I can set up the machine how I like and the wire feed only needs adjusted, saves having to clamber over obstacles to do adjustments every time you need to do a weld on different thicknesses or in different positions.
     
  11. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

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    223
    Location:
    York UK
    Yeah our friends across the pond mainly.
    Will take on board what you chaps have mentioned and run some beads, post a pic and see where I can improve. Thank you gentlemen.
     
  12. Instructor_Nige Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    manchester
    I'm sorry Richard but I have to strongly disagree, weaving is an important part of welding, it ensures you have good fusion to both halves of the parent metal, it helps you regulate your speed more important it allows you to concentrate the heat where it is needed. For example if you are welding 2 pieces of different thickness a straight run with no weave will produce a weld with fusion on one side but not the other..

    I quickly did this example, weaving the weld. note how the weld has good fusion with the parent metal on both sides, it is consistent and no cold lapping. .T Fillet welds can cause issues because bottom plate draws more heat away than the vertical top plate, without weaving the bottom toe of the weld would have poor penetration at best and cold lapping at worst and the top toe would likely have undercutting from too much heat. To say that if you are having to weave means your amps are too low is just wrong.. you need the correct amount of penetration with minimum amount of amps in order to keep the heat effected area at a reasonable level.

    I don't mean to offend just politely correct..

    Nige

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    Nige I’m going to strongly disagree with pretty much everything you say mate.
    There is simply no reason to compensate good old amps and volts with weaves to achieve fusion in 1G positional welding. Your never gonna see it on a wps and it’s certainly not an important part of mag welding in the 1G position.
    Point 1 fusion of both parts of a joint.
    Transfer deemed by arc voltage does a much better job of seeing nicely blended toes and sufficient fusion over both parts. If the bead size simply isn’t wide enough for a large joint or thicker gage your going to be producing a miles sounder weld by splitting off into a multi run if the joint desires it.
    Point 2 cold lapping.
    Refer to point 1 if your welding is cold at the toes you are welding too cold or don’t have your Volts and wire speed matched correct or your wire isn’t fed into the leading edge. Weaving isn’t a fix for this. Setting up correctly is the fix.
    Thick to thin again I wouldn’t need to weave and the added extra heat input from doing so will wreck the mechanicals in that thin section. You set your machine up for the thick as you would with all processes and you would weld them together concentrating the arc on the thick and the intensity of the power used will take to and fully fuse the thin.
    The only case scenario where I would deem it acceptable to weave would be out of position. Usually a vertically up weld. You haven’t got voltage on your side here to use spray transfer as your fighting gravity so in dip you need that manipulation to blend the toes and keep things hanging on when molten.
    Now why do I think you shouldn’t weave. Because it’s reducing your travel speed. That’s a fact. It’s increasing your local heat input. It’s reducing your weld toughness because it’s increasing your grain structure. It’s more likely to cause lack of fusion because it’s done in a colder transfer than a hot straight fast pass put down in solid spray. Your weld looks cold and slow to me.
    Please see my example
     
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  14. Instructor_Nige Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    manchester
    Richard, maybe there is some cross wires here, maybe my fault. Of course when carrying out spray transfer of course you would not have any weave. Dip transfer is a completely different beast and I would argue more common in general that spray transfer. My post was in reference to your statement that if you are weaving then the weld is too cold.. If spray transfer yes, if dip transfer then no, the OP was talking about practicing CCCCC, although I would not teach this method I presume he is dip transfering hence my post..

    again i am not trying to offend just help the OP

    Nige
     
  15. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    York UK
    A good debate this is turning into.
    Anyway to put some tears in your eyes I’ve done a few beads.
    3mm mild steel wire wheeled
    0.8 wire (SIP)
    100% CO2 @ 8lpm using peashooter
    All done with power on highest setting
    Wire speed half way in the recommended zone.
    Bottom row same power setting wire speed turned to 3/4 way of recommended setting.
    No cooling between beads just a minute or so break.
    Torch angle about 60 degrees facing direction of travel.
    No swirling just straight run.
    Comments however bad appreciated.
     
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  16. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    I wouldn’t be in dip transfer Nige if the plate could cope with spray.
    I wouldn’t need to weave in dip transfer if I’m set up correctly for the thin gage I’m welding. Your weave in your pic is even more un necessary then because on gage like that I certainly wouldn’t be in dip transfer I’d be in spray. So why did you need to weave it. Why do you need to weave in dip transfer if dip transfer is putting suitable fusion into the joint. If dip transfer doesn’t put suitable fusion in why are we welding in dip.
    I stand by my post mate there is no place for a weave if your set up is right to the joint and gage. Open root yes and vertical up yes. Square edged joints, general fab, practicing in flat I see no benefits.
     
  17. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

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    223
    Location:
    York UK
    About three inches each one.
    Can you give some pointers towards anything that you see from the pics.
    I know that’s a broad question but does anything standout. Travel speed etc etc.
    Will listen to your feed back and run some more off cheers.
     
  18. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    18,350
    Location:
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    You need to get that machine cranked up. Those are way too cold. Max out the voltage and set the wire speed to suit. Ignore the panel advise settings and hit it with power.
     
  19. bigfellayork

    bigfellayork Member

    Messages:
    223
    Location:
    York UK
    Ok the power was set at Bmax which is the highest it will go so I’m assuming I need to crack wire speed right up then. Cheers.
     
  20. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    18,350
    Location:
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    No turning up the wire speed won’t help. There is more than enough wire going in there. It hasn’t got the required power to wet out nicely laying a run on that gage.
    Take two pieces of it and butt them together with a 1mm gap. It might wet out on its max then.
     
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