Gate turret mill

  1. scottmk1

    scottmk1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    Scotland
    Hi, I currently have a Bridgeport BR2J mill, and it's obviously a useful tool to have but can anyone tell me how a Gate PBM2500 compares to it? The Gate has an R8 spindle, so I can use all of the tooling I have.

    The main thing I would say is it any more rigid? It weighs two or three hundred Kg more than a Bridgeport so that should help, but is the R8 spindle then the limiting factor?
     
  2. MattH

    MattH Member

    Messages:
    3,403
    Location:
    Bristol
    In my opinion anything bigger than a BP needs a better taper.
    I have a BP with R8 and a Europa Mill with an INT40 and it's a much bigger and more capable spindle.
    The BP is 1HP (the varispeeds went to 2HP) and the Europa is 5.5HP.

    When I was looking for a larger mill my caveat was that it must no be R8.
     
    Maker and eLuSiVeMiTe like this.
  3. MattH

    MattH Member

    Messages:
    3,403
    Location:
    Bristol
    Just trying to highlight the differences:

    Excuse the rubbish pic and the mess but in the foreground is my Bridgeport and about 15' away in the background is the Europa.
    2018-09-07 14.47.17.jpg

    Here's an R8 collet next to the spindle on the BP and the Europa:
    2018-09-07 14.47.56.jpg 2018-09-07 14.48.45.jpg

    This shows the size of the Europa's head:
    2018-09-07 14.48.15.jpg

    And here's an R8 next to a 40 taper:
    2018-09-07 14.49.09.jpg

    Even a machine with the much smaller 30 taper will be superior over an R8 based machine.
     
  4. scottmk1

    scottmk1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    Scotland
    Thanks Matt, can I have your Europa please? I suppose the sale of R8 tooling will go some way towards new stuff should I get another mill with a different taper.
     
    MattH and eLuSiVeMiTe like this.
  5. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    So, not much difference then. :D
     
  6. MattH

    MattH Member

    Messages:
    3,403
    Location:
    Bristol
    Lol, R8 can be a bit misleading as it’s a fairly long collet. But the only part doing any holding is the taper at the front. The other issue is that power is transferred via the taper whereas with an INT taper the torque is transmitted with drive dogs.
    Even the relatively small int30 taper is still a bigger taper than the R8 and uses dogs.
     
    Hopefuldave and slim_boy_fat like this.
  7. MattH

    MattH Member

    Messages:
    3,403
    Location:
    Bristol
    You’d be surprised that int30 or 40 tools can be had fairly cheaply as opposed to R8 which is more sort after because of it popularity in the hobby arena.
     
    fizzy, Hopefuldave, ronan and 2 others like this.
  8. scottmk1

    scottmk1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    Scotland
    I did think i could get some of the more industrial sized tooling at decent prices due to its lower popularity. Better keep my eye open for a bigger mill, although I'm not sure the Gate is the right one to go for.
     
  9. Hood

    Hood Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    7,922
    Location:
    Carnoustie, Scotland
    I kind of disagree with the dogs driving 30/40/50 taper etc. I prefer to think of it as a backup rather than the main driver. To illustrate this point I have seen mills with the one arm bandit type tool changer and the dogs have been removed to allow it to work, one example of this was a Matchmaker mill a friend had. My Chiron only has one dog and it is a hollow spring loaded affair (to allow tool changes whilst rotating) and there is no way it is strong enough to stop the holder rotating if the taper lets go.
    I do agree on the 30/40 tapers being more superior than the R8, my Chiron is a variant of the 30 taper and it can handle some serious abuse.

    Regarding the cost of the holders, you can often get new 40 taper ones from the likes of Cutwel for £99 plus VAT for 5 collet chucks, so £25 each.
     
    pressbrake1 likes this.
  10. skotl

    skotl Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    6,166
    Location:
    Edinburgh, UK
    Oh crap. I bought your rongfu when you got the bridgeport - does this mean I now need to make space for your bridgeport?
     
  11. scottmk1

    scottmk1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    Scotland
    Definitely, you always need a bigger mill!!
     
    Richiew and skotl like this.
  12. Hood

    Hood Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    7,922
    Location:
    Carnoustie, Scotland
    You should get yourself a CNC mill, something like a Beaver NC5 retrofit :D
     
    scottmk1 likes this.
  13. scottmk1

    scottmk1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    Scotland
    The Gate I seen has 2 axis cnc, I'm sure that would be fun to learn.
     
  14. Hood

    Hood Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    7,922
    Location:
    Carnoustie, Scotland
    The very first CNC retrofit I did was a manual Bridgeport to CNC with MACH2.
    I kept the hand wheels on the Axes as I reckoned I would still do the majority of my milling by hand, at least while I was learning CNC/G Code. Well I don't think I ever used the hand wheels once, I certainly had them chopped off within the first week. CNC was just so easy for milling, even if it was just using it like a manual machine, ie one axis at a time, just instead of winding handles you just punched something like G1X100F300 into the MDI line and off it would go and do a perfect feedrate cut and stop exactly where it was meant to.
    I would never have a manual mill again. A manual lathe however is a different thing, I would never NOT have a manual lathe :D
     
    Hopefuldave, eLuSiVeMiTe and MattH like this.
  15. MattH

    MattH Member

    Messages:
    3,403
    Location:
    Bristol
    My Europa is a CNC/manual mill. It has ballscrews on the XY but still has safety handles.
    TBF if you just want to bung something in the vise and drill a hole then the handles are handy. Although so is a pillar drill.
     
    eLuSiVeMiTe likes this.
  16. Hood

    Hood Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    7,922
    Location:
    Carnoustie, Scotland
    Even doing that is just as easy on a CNC, fair enough I also have MPG's on all my machines so I suppose on the odd occasion I do just drill a single hole I probably just jog to position via the MPG then drill down on the Z, again with the MPG.
     
  17. Richiew Tungsten Sharpener

    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    Teesside, England
    Scott, If you sell the Rongfu does the prospective purchaser get a free pizza?
     
    skotl, scottmk1, galooph and 2 others like this.
  18. skotl

    skotl Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    6,166
    Location:
    Edinburgh, UK
    That reminds me - there's news on that...
     
  19. scottmk1

    scottmk1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    Scotland
    Well I missed out on the Gate so wondering what else is decent, and has parts available should i need them?
     
  20. Hood

    Hood Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    7,922
    Location:
    Carnoustie, Scotland
    All depends but basically anything with Box ways is a good choice so some of the following may be, Beaver, Tos, Bridgeport Series2, XYZ and many more.
     
Advertisements