Does this look like it will work?

[Hood]

I was up getting another cylinder of Argon yesterday and I struggled a bit to get it in the car. They are around 60Kg so not massively heavy and most times it is not too bad but the cylinder was damp yesterday and as the bottom is rounded it was not the easiest to grip. Add to that that I am not getting any younger and my knees are not getting any better so I thought I would see if I could come up with something to help me.

Here is what I have so far. There is a roller in the middle of the hinge bracket, one on the end of the cylinder holder and there is a roller on the end of the hinges that goes through the slot in the cylinder holder.
There will be securing straps and probably a better design of the cylinder holder to make it more secure but I will have to measure the cylinder first before I can properly design that. There will be a handle of some sort on the lower end of the cylinder holder as well.

When the hinge arms are going from horizontal to the vertical position the cylinder holder will be resting on the bumper of the car (suitable cover plate clipped in place) so I should be able to control things as it rotates more.

Does it look like it will work? My only concern is as the arms go past vertical will it want to slam down or will I manage to hold it? I think I should manage as the centre of gravity should be rearward but..

 

[eSCHEn]

I think it'll work well. The arms going past vertical when loading won't be an issue as it'll try to pull you in and you can use your mass to prevent that. Coming back the other way might be a bit more tricky (ie when you're pulling the cylinder out) but again I think you've got the fulcrum in a place which means you can use your mass to assist.

 

[Hood]

.....and you can use your mass to prevent that. ...

You trying to say I am a fat barstewrd? Well you would be right

 

[eSCHEn]

Lol I did think after I posted that it read that way but no, just your sexy bod as usual handsome X

 

[Hood]

Lol I did think after I posted that it read that way but no, just your sexy bod as usual handsome X

Chubby chaser

 

[eSCHEn]

Chubby chaser

You bring it out in me.

Seriously though, how about a 1:4 scale test in the CNC? Tack it up and fill a appropriate bottle with water to represent the weight?

 

[Luke]

Why do you need the hinge arm to travel through 180 degrees? It looks like the lifting to do so is a waste of energy?

I think it might be to get the fulcrum outside the car?

Luke

 

[Hood]

You bring it out in me.

Seriously though, how about a 1:4 scale test in the CNC? Tack it up and fill a appropriate bottle with water to represent the weight?

Probably just as easy to make a full scale one up, especially as I should have plenty Alu left over from other jobs

Why do you need the hinge arm to travel through 180 degrees? It looks like the lifting to do so is a waste of energy?

I think it might be to get the fulcrum outside the car?

Luke

Yes, it has to reach out the back of the car by about 250mm to clear the lip of the boot and the bumper (bloody useless Passat design ). The Subaru I had before would have been fine as it didn't have a lip and I could have just had a sliding section with a hinge on the end.

 

[Hood]

I had thought about the hinge arms having a joint in the middle to lessen the lift required but couldn't, or at least so far, get it to work.

 

[hotponyshoes]

I have a length of rsj that I turn sideways, drop a beer keg on, and drag it half way up, then push it the rest of the way.

You have to be careful you don't leave too much of it inside the truck though or you can get a nasty wack between the legs!

I expect a narrow gas bottle would be a lot more stable than a wide beer keg as well!

Another method I have used is a small set if folding alloy steps, lift the bottle onto them, then you can almost hug it and tip it into the truck. Makes it easier to do the job in 2 separate lifts.
Might also be worth looking at boc etc and seeing what the delivery charges are?

 

[hotponyshoes]

Also, if you have a tow bar, might be better to make it attach to/drop over that some how.

Gives you the option of using it on other cars then.

 

[Hood]

I have a length of rsj that I turn sideways, drop a beer keg on, and drag it half way up, then push it the rest of the way.

You have to be careful you don't leave too much of it inside the truck though or you can get a nasty wack between the legs!

I expect a narrow gas bottle would be a lot more stable than a wide beer keg as well!

Another method I have used is a small set if folding alloy steps, lift the bottle onto them, then you can almost hug it and tip it into the truck. Makes it easier to do the job in 2 separate lifts.
Might also be worth looking at boc etc and seeing what the delivery charges are?

I had thought of something like that as it would just require a single slider/slot mechanism. Problem though would be getting the cylinder tilted onto it in the first place, I think it would tend to slide away at the bottom as it got further over at the top, maybe not though, certainly worth considering.

Regarding BOC charges, it is about £60 plus VAT for a delivery, fine if you are getting a few at a time but one a week gets expensive.

 

[Luke]

I had thought about the hinge arms having a joint in the middle to lessen the lift required but couldn't, or at least so far, get it to work.

I think it might be more efficient to think of it in three stages.

- extend/fold out hinge point
- tilt/slide cylinder
- retract/fold in hinge point

Trying to do it all in one seems less efficient, in terms of moving the cylinder.

Where does the level of the floor, vs. the centre of mass of a standing cylinder line up?

To make tipping the cylinder the least effort, the hinge wants to be near the centre of mass.

How much do you reckon the suspension drops?

 

[Hood]

Also, if you have a tow bar, might be better to make it attach to/drop over that some how.

Gives you the option of using it on other cars then.

Nope, no towbar on this one.
I tend to keep cars until they are run in to the ground or blow up, whichever comes first

 

[Hood]

....
Where does the level of the floor, vs. the centre of mass of a standing cylinder line up?

To make tipping the cylinder the least effort, the hinge wants to be near the centre of mass.

How much do you reckon the suspension drops?

The lip at the back of the boot is just below the roller height on the hinge bracket. The suspension doesn't drop at all or very little from meory.

 

[8ob]

Nice Idea, especially if the tilting gadget also secures the cylinder and stops it rolling around inside the truck.

Bob

You could always employ one of these chaps

 

[Hood]

Just looking again, I could aybe extend the slot further up the cylinder holder so that most of the cylinder/holder is out of the car before I start to need the arms to tilt. Would still need the angled slot where it is for getting back in but that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Screwdriver]

Seems like a right parlava when all you really need is a ramp that clips to the car. Slide the bottle up the ramp...

 

[hotponyshoes]

I expect the length I had gives you about 45deg angle.
The tank is 50mm or so away from the bottom of the 'ramp'
When you start tipping it, it stays on the ground until the very last bit. Once it hits he ramp it slide down maybe 50mm or so until it hits the ground again.
I can then stand over it and grab the bottom and shove it up the ramp.

You could probably improve on this by cutting the sides off the rsj at an angle top and bottom to give you a lead in/out

 

[Hood]

Nice Idea, especially if the tilting gadget also secures the cylinder and stops it rolling around inside the truck.

Bob

You could always employ one of these chaps

Ha ha they are pretty good at that