Denford viceroy 280 VS

  1. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    Evening, not been about much here since my last 280 VS, so now i have another thought i would put up a post and maybe help some folk who are encountering the same issues!
    Made a bit of a mess of the last one and sold it at a loss in the end, so bought this one cheap knowing its a bit rough so nothing much to loose, will be trying some unorthodox things, but hopefully wont upset too many purists :p so, to the machine:

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    This was it before the chap selling it removed it, from a school... some folk think school machines are great, but kids are not known for their mechanical sympathy or finness. So its a bit of a dog

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    I have had one of these machines before so was aware of the plastic back gear, and what can happen to them so took the cover of the headstock before cash changed hands, oh dear :o
    But combined with a few other issues, like the cabinet handle having got snapped off between the school and the guys garage, the gears in the screwcutting gearbox being slightly grazed, bed being dinged up from dropped chuck changes, and a fair amount of backlash and rust.
    Paid just over £300 so not too bad, so loaded it up and towed it all the way home from some place near Banff, very hairy on the lumpy bits.

    How (not) to unload a lathe single handed at 9PM, crane leg between trailer wheels, lift lathe clear of trailer, take offending wheel off.
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    Then wheel three wheeled trailer away and lower lathe onto crane :laughing:
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    Note the green pallet wrap tie to stop it swinging round, bit of health and safety :whistle: and my patented anti slip rubber backed door mat on the trailer, works great if you have a metal deck to stop metal on metal sliding.

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    Safe inside at last, some rearranging needed.

    So, to work, first bought a super cheap 2.2KW inverter. To wire this motor up to Delta there are instructions on the terminal cover plate, need to move wires rather than links, but wired it up and hoped for the best! was bought as untested, so after everything else wrong with it wouldn't surprise me if the motor was pumped

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    Inverter worked a treat, am super impressed with it and its control functionality, that will be coming later. No load test or whatnot, was a very heath robinson rig just to test, but it did highlite the horrific noise from that back gear! and its so chewed up it wont engage high range, guessing thats why there is a cable tie on the selector handle, to hold it in gear.

    Put that to the back of my mind and set about an idea to resync the screwcutting gearbox, as i had removed the cover to check for damage.
    These are notoriously difficult to properly align, as you cant see anything when the cover is on! So took some measurements and made a 3D printed cover, with a dirty great hole in it.

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    trick will be to get everything lined up, then remove the cover without disturbing anything, then fit the actual cover, without disturbing anything. At leat it will give me a fighting chance!

    But the back gear was annoying me, so i did this

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    Spindle came out remarkably easy, hardest part was removing the back gear shaft.

    Courtesy of the Denford forums i found the original engineering drawing for the gear

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    And after a lot of farting about i managed to 3D model it,

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    First atempt at 3D printing it didnt go too well, so edited the model to do away with most of the recess on the back, its only there for the gears retaining nuts, so made holes that a thin box spanner might fit into.

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    Very fancy, printed it, sizes came out a bit small on one diameter from the printer, maybe shrinkage due to the size of the part. But in all a great success! tooth form is a perfect match to the original.

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    (The odd pastern on the edge of the teeth is the printers version of a 15 degree chamfer)
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    And thats a few weeks work on one post.
    Idealy id like to find someone to cut a new gear for me, i have made a few enquirys but noting solid yet, its very tempting to try a 100% infill print and see what happens :scared:
    All gear cutting offers welcome :hug:
     
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  2. Rig Pig

    Rig Pig Member

    Messages:
    3,755
    Location:
    Narrwich! U.K.
    Ahh home lifting when nobody is watching...

    20190128_135516.jpg

    Nice job with the lathe.
     
  3. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    Nice big lump of iron there! see you have gone for the shiney bubble wrap too, my garage door is now festooned in insulation to try stop the cold.

    Also if anyone in the know sees this, my pictures do not seem to be showing to non forum members? After the photobucket fiasco i made another album on this forum and linked the pictures from there, permissions are set for anyone to view but not seem to be working? Can see them fine if im logged in
     
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  4. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

    Messages:
    12,436
    Location:
    Bedfordshire England
    Easiesteas
    easiest
    to upload directly to your post with the upload file button to the lower left of the text entry box.
    Or drag and drop from your desktop on to your post.
     
    chrisg3103 likes this.
  5. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    Just dragged and dropped, and could see it when i was logged out.
    Cant edit the original post though so cant fix the pictures, just linked the BB code in the original like i always used to do? [​IMG]
     
  6. Rig Pig

    Rig Pig Member

    Messages:
    3,755
    Location:
    Narrwich! U.K.
    The silver bubble wrap is just enough to stop condensation forming on the tin roof I foolishly fitted to replace the rotten wood and tar one.
    I need to dry some paint in the cold depths of winter so I added a door curtain and stuck a heater in there, worked ok but I wouldn't want to pay to run it all the time!
     
  7. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    Got a few hours to myself today so got a little bit more done, while i am trying to figure out what to do about the mangled gear i started on the variable speed drive.
    This lathe has a CVT drive system, now im running with a VFD so its pretty much redundant, but after looking up the cost of buying new pulleys, figuring out a belt tensioner, buying belts i thought id just keep it!
    Next problem is that the CVT system is adjusted by a little three phase motor, dont know why they didnt just use a small DC motor but thats what we have here. So took the assembly off and had a look as swapping the three phase motor with a DC one.

    20190405_160052.jpg
    Is a nice little assembly, motor shaft is 8mm, speed about 1200 rpm. Didnt think it would be too hard to find a replacement but i was wrong! only ones close were getting rather expensive.
    So another rethink, I have read posts about small three phase motor being able to be driven from single phase with a capacitor, but that would still require either new contactors, or as Pete from this forum has previously done, modifying the original 415v contactors to work, more expense and hassle.

    So a thought crossed my mind, buy another VFD... seems excessive for one small motor, but it would solve all the problems in one shot! can use the original setup, the VFD would take care of all the control AND i could hook it up the the cooling pump as well. The speed control motor will be worked from the jog function, and a drum switch or the like can switch to the cooling pump when needed and it can be run from the standard run function, with the benefit of variable speed for flow control.
    So a whole £42 later i had a 0.75KW VFD

    20190413_153535.jpg
    Speed change motor is wired as star, three coil ends grouped together and power going to the three lose ends, so to wire it in delta you need to find the ends of each coil and wire them together, like so: 20190413_162757.jpg
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    Wired up and worked brilliantly! instructions for theVFD are very easy to follow, even being a cheap generic one. Set the jog frequency to 50Hz and the stop to emergency, so runs at full speed (slow) when you hold down the jog key and stops dead when you let go, ideal.
    There are several multi function inputs that can be set to whatever you want, so can wire external forward and reverse jog switches later.

    20190413_165529.jpg

    Next job was the pump, it is much easier to configure to delta, just move the links as shown on the cover plate. Wired it up and it spun up lovely, good to know it still works, so after that success decided to clean it up a bit.

    20190413_175402.jpg
    Seems Denford bought the pumps in with a sort or dark blue hammerite type paint on then gave it a quick blast of Denford blue, showing its age so tried finding the nearest i could to the blue.

    20190413_202553.jpg Turns out Ford riviera blue is a near perfect match, dont know how it will hold up to oils and such like but it better than nothing
     
  8. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    Got cleaning out the headstock yesterday, it was pretty grim in there! lots of oil/mud
    20190419_135310.jpg
    Also took out the sliding back gear mechanism to clean the crud off of that and get better access, didnt get any pictures as i didnt want my phone to get covered but found that the sliding shaft has a detent mechanism that was slackened right off. Just had to adjust a grub screw underneath but impossible to get to in situ, will be adjusted and threadlocked before reassembly.
    After the oil was extracted and much cleaned off:
    20190419_185805.jpg
    A lot nicer in there, cleaned up all the important bits and put them in a box for later, but this was interesting when cleaning the gear from the spindle:
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    Not sure if that is a factory thing but a large chunk of gear has been replaced at some point? Dovetailed, screwed and epoxied. So long as it holds ill just leave that alone...
    After cleaning out the headstock i just kept going, after most of a days degresing and scrubbing ended up with this:
    20190419_185749.jpg Seems a bit extreme when the original fault was a damaged gear, but something i dont have a picture of is how bad it was beore i started cleaning it. At some point the school seems to have given up on it as a metal turning lathe and used it for wood... cue every oily nook and cranny getting clogged with a kind of oil/wood concrete.
    The leadscrew took a lot of unclogging but is looking good now, remembered to take a before picture of the back of the apron which is about the condition the entire lathe was in.
    20190419_185834.jpg With everything off i managed to sort the saddle cross slide, the tube that pokes out was moving in and out as the handle was turned, giving huge backlash.
    20190419_185727.jpg But with it upside down i could get to the securing grub screw, took it out to pull the whole shaft to clean any wood gunk off, then found another so something to watch out for. Incidentally couldn't pull the shaft as the grub screw had marred the shaft too much, so just tightened everything back up, hopefully no more movement.
    Also noticed there are no oiling points on the saddle ways? might drill and fit a few ball oilers and look into printing some wipers.

    Today the scrubbing continued, split lathe from cabinet to continue the odyssey.
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    Quite manageable with no bits on it, still a crane job though, more scrubbing to do on that later..

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    One manky cabinet, complete with crispy original cables, i never cut them btw, was the guy i bought it from...
    Much scrubbing later i unbolted the coolant sump, can see the ring of bolts in the middle ^ and fount something odd,
    20190420_121938.jpg
    There is already a welded on sump connector thingy? what is the point of this:
    20190420_121911.jpg
    there is a steel tube that fits in the original hole with a poorly made basket filter thing, it then drains into that big under hung sump the onto the coolant tank, why not just have a filter basket that fits the hole, and a pipe from the welded fitting to the tank?
    Seems very aftermarket, the gasket is made from high temp jointing and the holes are badly drilled, they are not even in the middle!
    unless anyone can think of a good reason to keep this pot thing im just going to weld up the holes and make a new filter. The only reason i can think of for the tube is that they made the filter too small and had to narrow the hole, bit odd.
     
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  9. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    In for a penny and all that, took the front name plate off, very easy to do. To take off the plastic rivets you just punch the center pin through with a nail or whatnot. Unless you happen to catch the little plastic pins as the pop out the back you probably wont be reusing them, im just going to drill and tap the cabinet for button head screws. 20190420_130611.jpg Bit more wire wool and gunk:
    20190420_134326.jpg Is getting there but the fumes are getting excessive :laughing:
    The bottom half of the cabinet isnt too bad but the top bit will probably need repainted, is an odd green/grey colour though so printed off a RAL colour chart, hardly the most accurate way to do it but better than nothing. I will proably go for RAL 7009 green grey, can get spray cans of tractol from smith and allan on ebay.

    Then when i got back in this afternoon i found a parcel awaiting me:

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    One intact (mostly) gear! all thanks to Pete fro this forum, turns out this was in his scrap pile as it was damaged

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    Two teeth with the tips knocked off, far better than 65 teeth with half of them missing!
    So i now have the part i need to fix the lathe, but its in a thousand bits :whistle: cant be too much more scrubbing before rebuild though
     
  10. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    Bit of progress, mostly cosmetic.
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    First off addressing the odd coolant sump, holes cleaned up with a flap disk
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    Spot of welding
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    Holes be gone! also noticed the indentations pressed into the tray to help divert coolent.

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    cabinet, scrubbed, sanded and a nice masking skirt applied, cant be bothered painting the entire thing, see how it goes.
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    Primer, left it to harden up for a day.
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    Top coat, ended up going for RAL 7012 which is basalt grey, went to a local paint supplier with a screw and went through their colour chits. Only problem is a screw is a very small sample... the green grey i originally thought was way off, but after comparing the colours the basalt is too grey?

    20190423_211821.jpg
    skoosh of basalt grey on the inside of the cabinet door, so unlikely to be uv faded or anything, is not bad but not right...

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    Anyway, put a few bits on and it dosnt look so bad, if it stands out when its fully built ill think about touching up the lower half of the cabinet.
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    Onto the actual lathe, lots of masking after lots of degreasing, sanding and a thorough wash with thinners.

    20190426_175306.jpg
     
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  11. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

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    Backs a bit runny, but its the back..
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    Nice an shiny, probably wont last long but at least its clean!

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    Reunited with the cabinet and back gear selector installed.

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    This is the detent ball that holds the gear in high or low range, if its not holding the grub screw underneath needs adjusting.
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    As i wont be using the original tachometer i removed the little sensor holding device, in its place i added a thermister, held in by the original grub screw, hole is directly above it in the headstock front wall. The idea is to try and keep an eye on the spindle nose bearing temperature, Denfords only specification for bearing pre load is that it should not exceed 65'C after an hours running at high speed.
    This is not the ideal location for a probe, there is a fair chunk of cast iron between it and the outer race and it will effect the readings, but i didn't have to do anything irreversible so worth a shot!
    20190427_142705.jpg
    Thermister cable exits the same way the tachometer cable did, cable and little button at the bottom are an interesting safety feature i thought id keep.
    The saddle has an adjustable rod on the back to activate this emergency stop switch if it gets too close to the chuck, wondering if a suitable actuator could be added to the lead screw handle it could be used an adjustable stop for threading. Its there anyway, to get to it the lathe has to be lifted clear of the cabinet so its a case of id rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

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    Meant to take more pictures but its an oily job and didnt manage, start of a spindle sandwich, a tricky operation to do single handed
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    All in the right order now, bit of fiddling to get the retaining nuts threaded onto the spindle and a bit of guess work to adjust the pre load.
    20190427_212936.jpg

    And finaly, spindle back together and gear train back on, still a good bit left to do but good to be putting bits back together!
     
  12. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    Got a bit sidetracked recently with fixing the garage a bit, first off new LED battens, the difference is incredible! id highly recommend it.

    20190504_153124.jpg
    Before it was just the downlights, very shadowy, i never put them in it was the previous owner, used to make false teeth in there apparently!
    Then to the heating, place is a bit damp and always cold, is sort of insulated so got a 5KW chinese diesel air heater.

    20190504_152557.jpg
    Coupled to a 30A 12v supply it works great, had it running about 7 or 8 hours today, kept the garage at a toasty 20 degrees and used about 2L of diesel. Few improvements, maybe mount it outside at some point and duct the air in, make it quieter. Also have the facility to draw in outside air to combat the ambient humidity, running in recirculating has dropped it a fair bit already though.

    On to the lathe, looking at the last photo i seem to have skipped ahead a bit..
    20190505_155131.jpg
    So, motor, pulleys, belt speed adjuster and most of the wiring fitted. trying to find a good place for the inverters and there is nothing obvious. Best solution i found in terms of practicality was to mount them on top of the old control box, then the cables could come directly into the box so no loose tails hanging about.
    I did have an idea and found the guts of the inverters could fit inside the control box..
    20190415_170759 (2).jpg

    But it will take a lot of doing to get it to work safely, so stick them on the top for the time being, any holes cut can be welded up at a later date if needed.
    So cut some holes and lined with edge protection, and fitted a bit of alloy to mount the inverters too, a little bit flimsy but good enough
    20190505_174143.jpg
    Inverters mounted and cable holes lined up with slots.
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    Back together (again) and looking like a robot chucking its guts up :laughing:

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    Also glued a magnet to the back of the spindle and printed a mount for the tachometer sensor

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    Screws into one of the jacking screw holes on the rear bearing housing.
    Hopefully get it wired and running soon to test bearing pre load and operation of the new gear and so on.
     
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  13. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    Bit of catchup to do here, so here is some progress:

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    Splashback cleaned painted and fitted, also gave the headstock cabinet a quick spray. Looking more like a real machine.

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    Also drilled the saddle for oilers, four off

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    pretty simple to do, drilled from the bottom with a 3mm drill, then use the hole in the top to open up to the size of the oiler. Got 1/4 inch, unfortunately couldn't find my imperial drills so drilled to 6.5mm, the oilers are not a push fit but a tiny squeeze with some grips to distort them and they become a push fit into the 6.5mm hole, and still function.

    Then onto the apron, this was full of old oil/chips/mud. wasnt going to fully strip it, everything moved fine but needed a good clean out!
    One of the tricky bits to refitting is aligning the power take off gear mechanism with the power take off shaft, its all a bit inaccessible when on the machine.
    So printed off a length of power take of shaft to use as an alignment device.
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    Shaft test fit, still has to be assembled into the gearbox
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    Whole apron assembled off of the machine, oiled everything up and slid the apron onto the power feed shaft with one movement, printed shaft ejected as planned and what could of been a nightmare job done in seconds!
    The only bit of the apron gearbox with an oil bath is the small section containing the power take of gear, had a quick go at printing a sort of dust/chip cover but didn't really work out so left it open.

    20190519_162659.jpg
    Next up was resyncing the screwcutting gearbox, printed cover worked very well, and my temporary roll pin for the selector knob.
    The knob has a detent mechanism so its easy to feel the positions and make sure the rack is in the right place, then make sure the lever is in the right place for each gear.
    20190519_163147.jpg
    Once it was all sorted i noticed these center punch marks in position 1, dont know if its a factory thing or someone has had this apart before but its a good sign things are where they are supposed to be! 20190519_163300.jpg
    Once aligned the screws can be undone and the plate slid off without disturbing anything, build the actual plate back up and refit, everything seems fine so far but its still to be used in anger.
     
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  14. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    20190523_203219.jpg
    As it stands at the moment, just the top slide to put back together and sort the tailstock. Also want to look into a quick change tool post

    20190523_203232.jpg
    Still to fit the oilers, one fitted at the moment, hopefully get it finished and making swarf by the end of the weekend :D
     
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  15. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    Nice job!! :thumbup:
     
  16. RichardM Member

    Looking good
     
  17. Sinbad New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    UK OL150RB
    Just bought a 280, needs a bit of work. One of its little faults is the feed for the cross slide and apron only works in one direction. Has anybody encountered this problem themselves? if so, can you offer advice, drawings, or a description of what I need to be looking for?
     
  18. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

  19. Pete.

    Pete. Member

    Messages:
    9,487
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    The tumbler reverse changes the direction of the sliding and surfacing feed. The lever for the tumbler is inside the end cover door.
     
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  20. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

    Messages:
    12,436
    Location:
    Bedfordshire England
    img84.jpg img85.jpg img87.jpg

    @Sinbad not your lathe but gives you an idea.
     
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