Coded welders

  1. paul teggart Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Dungannon, county Tyrone, Northern Ireland
    Hi guys, I'm having to get a few guys certified to 9606-1, pretty simple.
    My question is: if I have 15 welders and I'm going for EN ISO 3834-3 accreditation, how many of the guys do I actually need to get coded?

    Many thanks in advance for any replies.
     
  2. WorkshopChris Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    4,427
    Location:
    South East Essex
    This isnt my area hopefully someone will be along soon who knows, but my logic says if you have 15 guys welding for you then 15 will need to be tested, unless some just do measure, cut, prep and tack weld. In preparation for a welder to take over.
     
  3. In theory you only have to get the guys coded who are going to be doing the work you are seeking accreditation for but in reality you'll get a rush job in and you'll have guys on the sick and on holiday so you'll end up having to put one of the others guys on the job to get it out, the customers inspector finds out and scraps the job. Not worth it for the sake of a few hundred quid
     
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  4. paul teggart Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Dungannon, county Tyrone, Northern Ireland
    Thanks for the replies guys. I just wanted to clarify from a independent source as I had TWI and Lloyds guys giving quotes and pushing to get all welders coded, obviously there's a fiscal interest there.
    I was confused as I can't see any mention of the volume of personnel to be tested in ISO 3834-3.

    Thanks again fellas, I really appreciate it.
     
  5. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

    Messages:
    6,052
    Location:
    Essex
    Mid Wales welder likes this.
  6. Mid Wales welder

    Mid Wales welder Welder coding and NDT services

    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    Powys, U.K.
    Hi Paul, as backpurge said you only need the guys certified that will be doing the work. When you say 3834 are you doing work for EN1090 or is it just 3834? Where are you based? TWI and Loyds will cost you a fortune and it really doesn't need to be that way. Do you have welding procedures in place? If you would like me to give you a call for free advice then PM me your phone number and I will get in touch.
     
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  7. Liquid Metal

    Liquid Metal Member

    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Just get one guy tested.
    That way, youve o ly got one lot of fees to pay.
    Job will take a lot longer though as no one else can chip in and help if he comes accross problems (as how we all know, often happens) or material deosnt turn up in time, or if he has any time off sick or goes on holiday..... but wouldnt worry about it, your customers will understand :clapping:
    As said above, anybody not tested doing work they should be tested to do, will cause legal problems and rightly so.

    Why not simply have all employees who are employed as welders tested. Youll make the fees back on the jobs they work on wont you once youve started pricing work up to be welded to ISO standards (and dont have customers going elsewhere due to having no certified welders working for you) rather than "weve slapped it together for you, not entirely sure how good a job he done though, but looks ok ish".

    Mucking about to one side though

    Dont forget though, work needs to be mpi/xray/DPI/ultrasound tested every so often (6 months i think) for prolongation. Also with the ISO/BSEN/CE certs, unlike ASME procedures/qualifications, they arent the property of the company so if the welder moves on to another company they are entitled to take them with them.
     
    Mid Wales welder likes this.
  8. brightspark

    brightspark Member

    Messages:
    26,985
    Location:
    yarm
    its tax deductible sending for training so your not really shelling out the full amount and pay less tax :laughing:
     
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  9. Interesting, I thought the cents were the companies property as a rule
     
  10. Liquid Metal

    Liquid Metal Member

    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Im not 100%, almost though lol
    The firm i work for do until now mainly pipework, tanks/vessels, and work in tank farms, refineries that sort of thing. Hence all of us working there as welders are coded to ASME 9 (tig and stick that is).
    A year or so ago now, they got an inspector in from zurich, to help develop some MIG and FCAW procedures so the firm could get in on large scale structural work too ie railway steelwork and that sort of thing. Whilst there to witness procedure approval tests (timing passes, inter run temps and all that sort of thing) and to witness subsequent tests.

    Whilst he was there with us, im almost certain i remember him telling us how the ISO certs are to certify that we can weld within a procedure range rather than a strict procedure and that they qualify us personally, and unlike asme certs, they are transferable.
     
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  11. Liquid Metal

    Liquid Metal Member

    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    On another note (to the OP).....
    Once youve had procedures approved, guys tested and theyve passed, therefore allowing you to up your prices to your customers (due to upped standard of work, insurance traceability etc etc and allow you to expand your customer base, and over time jncrease your profits......

    Do the decent thing and give them a pay rise :thumbup::thumbup:
     
  12. Mid Wales welder

    Mid Wales welder Welder coding and NDT services

    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    Powys, U.K.
    They don’t necessarily have to have NDT for prolongation, the RWC or other responsible person in the company can perform a destructive test in house and then sign off the cert for the following six months.
    While a 9606 approval is the property of the welder, the cert has the company name on it so this would need to be amended. Also 9606 is tested to a procedure, so if the new company has a different procedure then welder would have to requalify anyway.
    These standards are very much down to interpretation sometimes though and not black and white at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
    Welderpaul and backpurge like this.
  13. Liquid Metal

    Liquid Metal Member

    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Ahh right, Fair do's. Understand the procedure thing, i guess 3mm thick box section fabrications and heavy steel plate are very different arent they even if both migged lol.
    Was just the way i understood it. I therefore stand corrected.
     
    Mid Wales welder likes this.
  14. Mid Wales welder

    Mid Wales welder Welder coding and NDT services

    Messages:
    550
    Location:
    Powys, U.K.
    Yes there is quite a bit to it, when you start getting up into plates over 20mm on your fillets and all transverse butt welds u see load (for CE structural steel anyway) then you get to a point where regular NDT comes in. Depending on the execution class there are varying levels and types of NDT required.
    Also with 9606 welder approvals it depends what date they are qualified to, if it’s to 9.3a they last for 3years and the welder has to re test. 9.3b lasts for two years and can be prolonged by the testing body as long as sufficient NDT reports and destructive tests have been carried out. 9.3c can be prolonged indefinitely provided the welder is carrying out the same work, but this is never really used as it would not fulfill most contract requirements.
    9.3b is probably the most common, especially when dealing with high end work like nuclear. But for for most exc 2 CE marked companies it should be 9.3a, but a lot of testing companies don’t do it to that as they can make more money for testing more regularly.
     
  15. Farside

    Farside Badly Welded Man

    Messages:
    3,302
    Location:
    Ireland
    I didn't know if the situation had changed since, but I recall the fab shop next door had welders get coding, then they'd up sticks and be off to the North Sea yards for some big money. Fair peeved the management, that did. Istr the company tried to get newly-coded guys to agree to stick around for a while, but whether that involved similar wages to what could be earned elsewhere, I doubt it.
     
  16. dannyp Member

    if your beam bashing the codes ain't exactly much of an ask it'll be mig T fillet on something like 12-8mm,in flat. any decent testing outfit will tell you the samplels you need to do to cover you for virtually everything. only something like £35 - 50 a weld

    code everyone then if shit hits the fan your coverd as the guy who did it was coded then you've just got to find out who has to stand by the fan
     
    Farside likes this.
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