Barium salts in flux cored wires: what do they do?

  1. Sarto

    Sarto Small flower carts specialist

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    Hi to all.
    In this time of holiday, I spent half an hour reading Ine datasheets for their
    self shielded flux cored wires.
    (Mainly INETUB S71T11 and BA71T11)

    They have a product line without Barium Salts (S71T11) and one with (BA71T11).

    So my question is:
    what do the barium salts do?

    Lincoln use them in the nr211MP too.

    Have a nice day, everyone.

    Sart0
     
  2. voipio Member

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    979
    Cambridge, UK
    Barium salts are used as flux.

    Edit, done after the post below: to give better positional welding, particularly offshore.
     
  3. TechnicAl

    TechnicAl Member

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    Barium is used in SOME flux cored wires.....I cant remember if its in NR211MP.......Its there as Barium Carbonate as its dissociates into Barium Oxide and Carbon Monoxide and Dioxide at lower temperatures than most other Carbonates....so it forms a deoxidising / reactive shield. Barium has been quoted as being toxic and the TLV is quite low. Those wires that contain it will exceed the TLV, however, because the weld metal is designed to accept excessive amounts of Nitrogen (from the atmosphere) the weld fume can be extracted at source....similar extraction would result in porous welds in MIG or Gas Shielded FCW.

    There are 2 main groups of Self Shielded wires, those that contain barium and those that dont.....they rely on different chemistry to produce a sound weld. To be honest Ive forgotten the reasons behind it.

    Some cast iron stick electrodes also contain Barium and will also exceed the TLV. Those that are Barium free contain Strontium instead which may or may not be less toxic that Ba but its not included in the list.
     
  4. Parm

    Parm Oh how I’ve missed my play pen this year

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    Almost certainly Barium won’t exist in its elemental state when given off from welding fume, it will most likely be in some sort of oxide form. Exposure limit for barium is incredibly low but probably not relevant in this case as it’s only applicable for soluble forms of barium. I don’t know if barium oxide fume is soluble or not.

    Strontium on the the other hand is whole different ball game. It’s radioactive. You don’t really want any exposure at all
     
  5. TechnicAl

    TechnicAl Member

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    Thats one of the issues.....how to differentiate between soluble and insoluble Ba.......The Strontium Carbonate is not radioactive as far as Im aware....but my experience is long time past now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontium_carbonate
     
  6. Parm

    Parm Oh how I’ve missed my play pen this year

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    I call this fire chemistry, trying to understand on the fly reactions, one of the most difficult things to do

    Ok, didn’t realise strontium is in carbonate form, still wouldn’t mess around with it though
     
  7. Sarto

    Sarto Small flower carts specialist

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  8. TechnicAl

    TechnicAl Member

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    There are text books that refer to these reactions...Ellingham Diagrams and thermo-dynamics. The Blast furnace and how it works is a good example.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellingham_diagram
     
    Parm likes this.
  9. TechnicAl

    TechnicAl Member

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    Id say remove the fume rather than change the wire....if its one you like and get good results
     
  10. Sarto

    Sarto Small flower carts specialist

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    443
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    I have never tried flux cored wires. I was looking to buy some and play.
    I often look to Ine, because they are local to me.
    Anyway, removing the fumes is the right thing to do.

    Thanks eveyone for the answers.

    :drunk::drunk:
     
  11. TechnicAl

    TechnicAl Member

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    Are INE part of Lincoln now?
     
  12. Sarto

    Sarto Small flower carts specialist

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    I don't think, but I know little about the market.
    They are just the 3 "hobby level" wires that I know. ;)
     
  13. TechnicAl

    TechnicAl Member

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    Im thinking of FRO
     
  14. Sarto

    Sarto Small flower carts specialist

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    443
    Location:
    Padova - Italy
  15. Parm

    Parm Oh how I’ve missed my play pen this year

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    Thanks for that. I often need to know but don’t know where to look. I shall have a read
     
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