4m VS 5m

  1. Thrashsmith

    Thrashsmith Member

    Messages:
    613
    England, Kent
    Is there a reason that most MB25 torches come in 4m rather than 5m? I'm looking for a longer MB25 torch to replace the 3m one that came with my ESAB Mig and ideally looking for a 5m one as 4m doesn't really seem like much of a jump up.

    Also, is there a particular feature of Binzel torches that warrant the higher prices, or are they just better quality? I spotted some "Binzel style" ones, obviously trying to cream off the brand name, but made me wonder if there's an extra feature/mechanical difference in Binzel ones?

    Cheers
     
  2. outofthefire

    outofthefire Member

    Messages:
    2,368
    Leeds
    If your welder doesn't have twin drive wheels you might struggle getting the wire down a longer torch. I was told cheaper torches don't always do well if you're welding at high power a lot.
     
  3. henry Kadzielski Member

    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Australia Wollongong
    If some one makes something good, then some one else will copy it and chime in on the market. Binzel make some good gear and Abicor Binzel stuff is better, however it depends on what you are doing. Most of the torches you get that are 'copies' are just standard torches, however the specialised stuff, which is made by the 'brand' Binzel doesn't have enough demand to interest the 'copiers'. There are lots of torch designs to suite specialised applications, however most people will never see them as they have no need for them. It is only when you start looking for 'other' torches that you discover what is available. Yes they come with a price, but for some people and applications there is no options. :thumbup:
     
    pondy likes this.
  4. henry Kadzielski Member

    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Australia Wollongong
    Good morning I didn't respond to the first question.
    Manufactures have to limit the options they produce. So 3m and 4m guns are standard in the MB series. If you want longer then there is the push pull guns, as at some stage you will have feed issues the longer you go. If you are using 1.2mm steel wire, it will feed well even at 6m. However if you are using .6mm wire you can get feed issues even at 3m depending on the liner and the twisting of the gun leed. Fronius, to be different make a 4.5meter push gun, so go figure.
     
  5. armalites Member

    Messages:
    5,310
    Herefordshire
    I use a Binzel MB15 4m, my welder originally had a 3m. It's on a Migatronic and with 0.6 wire I do get the odd issue, fine with 0.8. There is a benefit of having that extra slack but I'm not sure I would want a 5m on mine although I'm sure it would be fine with 0.8, my welder isn't used every day so I guess the my wire may not alway be as perfect as it could be.

    The Binzel torches do feel nice in your hand and in MB15 they are not really much more expensive than a cheap torch.

    I think mine had a slightly different angle on the swan neck to my old torch which obviously changed the way I used it.

    For the stuff you do I can see why it would useful to have a 5m and be able to walk around the bench.

    I bought mine from Cheltenham Welding as I travel near them with work but they also stock all the parts and that is another benefit of the Binzels, you can buy every part even handle casings.
     
  6. Davidcardiff Member

    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Kildare . Ireland
    I'm using a Bernard torch Q300 it's 15ft long/ 4.5m they are expensive but worth it. Bit are a bit more expensive but the tips and shrouds last way longer
     
  7. matt1978

    matt1978 www.lorch.eu

    Messages:
    3,784
    Location:
    UK, Cannock
    You can buy a 5m MB25 torch it's just that they are not very popular.

    4m in a general production environment is usually ample and also a MB25 torch is usually used with 0.8mm wire and it can be problematic feeding 0.8mm wire over 5 meters.

    1.0-1.2mm dia steel or stainless would be fine over 5m but 0.8 steel/stainless steel and 1.0-1.2mm Ali are best of limited to 4m
     
    Davidcardiff likes this.
  8. rikrobson

    rikrobson Member

    Messages:
    3,850
    Location:
    Perth, Scotland
    my MB15 is 4m and my MB25 is 3m

    I just swapped out to the 15 to get better reach. Also the 15 is better on upsidown under cars. the 25's nozzle shroud is a wee bit big to see in tight spaces.

    The 4m 15 was a bit too much for my old cebora 130 but the r-tech is fine with either. the 25 came with the welder.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  9. Mee Banned

    Messages:
    1,441
    Location:
    Here and There
    My ESAB came with an 8M umbilical as standard and is fine, but it wont take 0.6mm wire and it isn't recommended for 0.8mm wire which is fine for me as it is running 1.2mm wire.
     
    gordon stephenson likes this.
  10. Rig Pig

    Rig Pig Member

    Messages:
    3,755
    Location:
    Narrwich! U.K.
    8mtr is a hell of a long hose to push wire up! Is it for a spool gun?
     
    daleyd likes this.
  11. Mee Banned

    Messages:
    1,441
    Location:
    Here and There
    I thought that but apparently it is an option for them which was specified at the time of order.
     
  12. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey R H Davey Welding Supplies Ltd

    Messages:
    5,495
    Location:
    Southampton
    We stock 3,4 and 5 metre in MB15, MB25, MB36, MB240D and MB501.

    We have taken on the new EVO Pro range and they feature redesigned handles with a slimmer ball joint and cable support and better still slimmer and lighter power cables.

    5 metre will feed just fine if you pay attention to routing your torch sensibly, three loops between you and the set will definitely cause more problems than none etc.

    Binzel are the largest torch manufacturer in the game and they manufacture for just about all the big names at some point in their range so yeah, their quality and longevity are worth paying a bit extra for.
     
    Tom Orrow L likes this.
  13. dannyp Member

    with a dcenet wire feed 1mm + will push a hell of a way.

    arbicor binzel torches are good, i usally get 1 - 2 years out of an MB501 and there getting some hammer, i know they make branded torches for meany manufactures eg BOC but they are generaly cheeper but don't seem to put up with the stick anywhere near as well, at one point we were getting the BOC version of the mb501 apparently maded by binzel according to the rep, but they were defantly no where near as good we were getting 1-2 weeks out of them before the braid in the power hose snapped
     
  14. daleyd

    daleyd Member

    Messages:
    6,975
    Location:
    Wrexham, North Wales
    What on earth are you welding (presumably at home and not in a fab shop?) that requires 1.2mm wire and an 8 m torch?
     
  15. Kayos

    Kayos Member

    Messages:
    5,785
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Something big and far away?

    At home I've always just moved the welder, it's on wheels after all
     
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  16. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey R H Davey Welding Supplies Ltd

    Messages:
    5,495
    Location:
    Southampton
    I've never seen an 8 metre torch that didn't have a puller motor in the handle. Seems a long way to try and push wire without assistance from the business end.
     
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  17. Kent

    Kent Member

    Messages:
    10,002
    Location:
    Bowland, Lanacshire,UK
    Your far better off moving the welder than lengthening the torch.
     
  18. Mee Banned

    Messages:
    1,441
    Location:
    Here and There
    Neither have I Jim which is why I checked as it is the original torch for the machine, it is a little too long for me and you have to work away from the machine to minimise kinking, but apart from that it is fine and feeds perfectly well.
     
  19. Tom Orrow L

    Tom Orrow L Welding Supplies Direct

    Messages:
    2,489
    Location:
    Shropshire, UK
    When you say umbilical, do you mean the interconnecting cable or the torch itself?
    As Jim says, I've never seen an 8M torch before.. especially not as standard on a machine.
     
    skotl and The_Yellow_Ardvark like this.
  20. As Tom says the umbilical is the connections between the power source and wire feed unit, nowt to do with the torch
     
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