SV1BDO
Member
- Messages
- 101
- Location
- Greece, Egio City
I need to weld alu material, mainly square box sections, 2 or 4mm thickness, so a single phase 230VAC / 200A AC/DC TIG Welder seems to satisfy my requirements. I have rejected all models including PLASMA cutting, as the majority of them create problems (as I have read here). After a lot of research & reading manuals, I have concluded to the following 3 machines:
A) Stahlwerk AC/DC 200P. This is a typical representative of the last generation of MOSFET based Inverters, with full manual control of all functions and lacking digital readout, except of the main welding Amperage setting. All other parameters are adjusted using potentiometers, each one dedicated for only a single function. As there is no digital readout of the selected value, maybe there is a small tolerance between the position of the potentiometer and the actual value of it. There are 2 seperate connectors, one 2-pole for the torch swich & one 7-pole for the foot pedal. It supports both 2T & 4T operation, while some functions are supported only in 4T. Eventhough the machine has a PULSE function, this is only available in DC and not in AC. Manufacturer says that they are using reliable Toshiba MOSFETs (hope that they are not cheap clones). The German distributor offers a 5 yrs warranty (2 yrs normal + 3yrs extended). They also say that they are 17+ yrs in the market, providing a good after-sales support. If I have understood well, they are involved only in the welding business. Eventhough they are one step behind regarding technology, it seems that they know their business very well. Many members of the forum have only good words to say for this machine.
In the same category there were also some other candidates, but did not enter the semi-finals. I have rejected a similar fully analog Riland model that is available here in Greece, as its price is unreasonably high (1200 EUR + VAT). I also rejected some Chinese WSE-200P AC/DC TIG units that are also available, (locally in Greek market or in European countries) as their after sales support is not clear by their distributors, or they have no good reviews and feedback from various customers (like STAMOS welders that are distributed by Expondo in Germany)
B) LCD Vision AC/DC 200P. This candidate has also some brother-machines (almost indentical models under other brand names, but probably made from the same Chinese factory). The brands are NTF from Ipotools in Germany, TIGMIG (Italy), Everlast (USA, Canada, Australia), Welder Fantasy (Poland) & TokenTools (Australia). Maybe there are more around the globe. The LCD Vision's site says that their machines are using SIEMENS Infineon IGBTs. If all brother-machines are made in the same factory, probably they will use the same quality IGBTs to all brands, but you would never be so shure with Chinese people...
LCD Vision and its brothers are using a different aproach on adjusting parameters. They are microprocessor controlled and have only one main potentiometer. The selection of each parameter is done by using a push button, with a LED indication of the selected parameter on a MIMIC panel. Here we have full digital readout of the selected value (either absolute or percentage), plus 9 memories. Some values may have wider range of adjustment, compared with Stahlwerk machine.
C) R-Tech TIG210XT and its brothers (Welder Fantasy JET II in Poland & Everlast 210EXT in USA) seems to be an upgrade model of the previous one, as they have almost the same panel configuration, plus some extras. There are also 2 Easy Setup Presets, (one for DC & one for AC), plus a selection of 4 AC waveforms (Advanced SquareWave, Soft Square, SineWave & Triangular). The PULSE function also offers 2 selections, standard & Advanced.
QUESTIONS
1) MOSFET vs IGBT. Despite of the technical view, is there any practical result on the welding process or on the welds that someone have to choose the one or the other technology? (ie more stable arc, better handling on higher Amperage, etc)
2) PULSE welding. Stahlwerk offers variable pulse welding (0,5-200 Hz) only in DC. LCD Vision (and its brothers) offer a wide range of adjusting pulse parameters. R-Tech (and its brothers) offer more: 2 selections of PULSE welding (standard AC/DC & advanced AC). R-Tech manual says that advanced AC is good on welding thin sheets, so is it really required welding alu 2mm thickness, or is it just an option that is rarely used, with not so distinct results?
3) AC waveform shape. R-Tech (and its brothers) offers 4 different shapes, while all other machines in 2 categories do not have this function. How critical is the shape of the AC waveform during Alu welding? Is it a real advantage that has distinct result while using it, or is it just another "bell & whistle", used mainly for marketing?
4) Foot pedal. LCD Vision & R-Tech machines have only one 7-pole connector, that is used for both torch switch & foot pedal, but only one device each time. So, if you connect the foot pedal onto the machine, how the arc starts? On the other hand, if someone uses 4T mode, the foot pedal is useless, as it works only in 2T. Stahlwerk English manual is very poor, as it does not specify which functions are available only in 4T, which functions are available in foot pedal and in which modes (2T, 4T or both) the foot pedal can be used.
5) PRICING. R-Tech has a good reputation in UK due to the very good after sales service, but at 1434 GBP (VAT included, means aprox 1620 EUR) is very overpriced, IMHO. In the same (over) price category fits the Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT (aprox. 1600 EUR), while the "Polish brother" Welder Fantasy JET TIG II 200 costs 4343 PLN (aprox. 910 GBP or 1025 EUR ,VAT included). So, for someone like me that don't live in UK to consider about the R-Tech after sales support, an almost 50% difference on retail price is a substantial reason to choose the "Polish brother"?
6) AFTER WARRANTY SERVICE. I believe that an "old fashioned" MOSFET welder like Stahkwerk (without complicated components) shall be easier to be repaired, instead of a more sofisticated modern IGBT inverter with microprocessors, like R-Tech and its brothers.
Despite of the comparison based strictly on the published manuals & specs, are there any other issues that I have to consider, regarding the welding performance or functionality on any machine? (ie stahlwerk manual says that you cannot see the real value of welding Amp, unless you trigger the torch).
A) Stahlwerk AC/DC 200P. This is a typical representative of the last generation of MOSFET based Inverters, with full manual control of all functions and lacking digital readout, except of the main welding Amperage setting. All other parameters are adjusted using potentiometers, each one dedicated for only a single function. As there is no digital readout of the selected value, maybe there is a small tolerance between the position of the potentiometer and the actual value of it. There are 2 seperate connectors, one 2-pole for the torch swich & one 7-pole for the foot pedal. It supports both 2T & 4T operation, while some functions are supported only in 4T. Eventhough the machine has a PULSE function, this is only available in DC and not in AC. Manufacturer says that they are using reliable Toshiba MOSFETs (hope that they are not cheap clones). The German distributor offers a 5 yrs warranty (2 yrs normal + 3yrs extended). They also say that they are 17+ yrs in the market, providing a good after-sales support. If I have understood well, they are involved only in the welding business. Eventhough they are one step behind regarding technology, it seems that they know their business very well. Many members of the forum have only good words to say for this machine.
In the same category there were also some other candidates, but did not enter the semi-finals. I have rejected a similar fully analog Riland model that is available here in Greece, as its price is unreasonably high (1200 EUR + VAT). I also rejected some Chinese WSE-200P AC/DC TIG units that are also available, (locally in Greek market or in European countries) as their after sales support is not clear by their distributors, or they have no good reviews and feedback from various customers (like STAMOS welders that are distributed by Expondo in Germany)
B) LCD Vision AC/DC 200P. This candidate has also some brother-machines (almost indentical models under other brand names, but probably made from the same Chinese factory). The brands are NTF from Ipotools in Germany, TIGMIG (Italy), Everlast (USA, Canada, Australia), Welder Fantasy (Poland) & TokenTools (Australia). Maybe there are more around the globe. The LCD Vision's site says that their machines are using SIEMENS Infineon IGBTs. If all brother-machines are made in the same factory, probably they will use the same quality IGBTs to all brands, but you would never be so shure with Chinese people...
LCD Vision and its brothers are using a different aproach on adjusting parameters. They are microprocessor controlled and have only one main potentiometer. The selection of each parameter is done by using a push button, with a LED indication of the selected parameter on a MIMIC panel. Here we have full digital readout of the selected value (either absolute or percentage), plus 9 memories. Some values may have wider range of adjustment, compared with Stahlwerk machine.
C) R-Tech TIG210XT and its brothers (Welder Fantasy JET II in Poland & Everlast 210EXT in USA) seems to be an upgrade model of the previous one, as they have almost the same panel configuration, plus some extras. There are also 2 Easy Setup Presets, (one for DC & one for AC), plus a selection of 4 AC waveforms (Advanced SquareWave, Soft Square, SineWave & Triangular). The PULSE function also offers 2 selections, standard & Advanced.
QUESTIONS
1) MOSFET vs IGBT. Despite of the technical view, is there any practical result on the welding process or on the welds that someone have to choose the one or the other technology? (ie more stable arc, better handling on higher Amperage, etc)
2) PULSE welding. Stahlwerk offers variable pulse welding (0,5-200 Hz) only in DC. LCD Vision (and its brothers) offer a wide range of adjusting pulse parameters. R-Tech (and its brothers) offer more: 2 selections of PULSE welding (standard AC/DC & advanced AC). R-Tech manual says that advanced AC is good on welding thin sheets, so is it really required welding alu 2mm thickness, or is it just an option that is rarely used, with not so distinct results?
3) AC waveform shape. R-Tech (and its brothers) offers 4 different shapes, while all other machines in 2 categories do not have this function. How critical is the shape of the AC waveform during Alu welding? Is it a real advantage that has distinct result while using it, or is it just another "bell & whistle", used mainly for marketing?
4) Foot pedal. LCD Vision & R-Tech machines have only one 7-pole connector, that is used for both torch switch & foot pedal, but only one device each time. So, if you connect the foot pedal onto the machine, how the arc starts? On the other hand, if someone uses 4T mode, the foot pedal is useless, as it works only in 2T. Stahlwerk English manual is very poor, as it does not specify which functions are available only in 4T, which functions are available in foot pedal and in which modes (2T, 4T or both) the foot pedal can be used.
5) PRICING. R-Tech has a good reputation in UK due to the very good after sales service, but at 1434 GBP (VAT included, means aprox 1620 EUR) is very overpriced, IMHO. In the same (over) price category fits the Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT (aprox. 1600 EUR), while the "Polish brother" Welder Fantasy JET TIG II 200 costs 4343 PLN (aprox. 910 GBP or 1025 EUR ,VAT included). So, for someone like me that don't live in UK to consider about the R-Tech after sales support, an almost 50% difference on retail price is a substantial reason to choose the "Polish brother"?
6) AFTER WARRANTY SERVICE. I believe that an "old fashioned" MOSFET welder like Stahkwerk (without complicated components) shall be easier to be repaired, instead of a more sofisticated modern IGBT inverter with microprocessors, like R-Tech and its brothers.
Despite of the comparison based strictly on the published manuals & specs, are there any other issues that I have to consider, regarding the welding performance or functionality on any machine? (ie stahlwerk manual says that you cannot see the real value of welding Amp, unless you trigger the torch).