Bird nesting

  1. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    hello everyone I have a new Oxford migmaker 200 with argon shield gas

    For months now it will weld then next weld it does not spark, when I check at machine there's load of wire like a birds nest

    I have been on u tube and looked at how to set the wire tension up

    I'm finding I can not set the tension low enough with out it springing off

    Also don't know how tight the tension should be on the spool of wire

    I am trying to do car body work I have phoned manufacturer who are a waste of time everything I'm using is brand new any help I would be extremely great full
     
  2. Omniata

    Omniata Bartender, Chemist, Brewer, Welder, Lumberjack...

    Messages:
    3,225
    Location:
    Poynton, Cheshire, UK, [DOP]
    Assuming Aluminium, what rollers are fitted, V or U grooves?
    Also what sort of torch, and does the tube the wire feeds into back up right to the rollers?

    Edit: The tension should be set tight enough to push the wire, but loose enough that it slips if something stops it, ie: end of nozzle pointed against metal...
     
  3. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    uk Bristol
  4. Gareth0123

    Gareth0123 Y'all hold my beer, while you watch me do this!

    Messages:
    958
    Location:
    Norwich, Norfolk, UK
    Are you tensioning the wire reel spindle correctly?

    When you change the wire reel you may see a nut on a spring on the spindle shaft that supports the wire reel. Give that nut a couple of turns to change the tension of the wire coming off the reel then you can alter the pressure at the feed rollers.

    You need the right tension on the reel spindle to stop the reel "freewheeling" because its momentum could allow it to over run and cause a birds nest when releasing the torch trigger


    The silver coloured nut in the centre of the wire reel spindle is the one that increases/decreases wire tension.


    [​IMG]
     
    Mee likes this.
  5. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    I am using mild steel wire with a v shape roller .6,with a new binzel torch with a.8 tip
    I have read how to set up a mig welder on the forum feel confident about spool tightness now

    Just can't get the rollers to slip with minimum tension on
     
  6. armalites Member

    Messages:
    1,378
    Herefordshire
    Silly question but why are you using a 0.6 roller and a 0.8 tip?

    If you are using 0.6 wire then it will never be 100% with a 0.8 tip if you are using 0.8 wire then you should be using a 0.8 roller
     
    Mee likes this.
  7. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    I was advised by seller of torch .8 would be better to use with .6 wire es a newbie you have to trust people,I am using a .6 roller and .6 wire.

    Ok let's start again obviously I have not got a clue what I'm talking about so

    What causes bird nesting, I was told too much roller tension,With the roller tension on minimum still does not slip when nipped with fingers
     
  8. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    uk Bristol
    Even though 0.6 wire does seam the obvious choice when doing car bodywork it can be easier with 0.8 ! The 0.8 is stiffer and so feeds better. You can find better quality/makes of 0.8 than 0.6. It has been explained to me on the forum that when the wire is manufactured (drawn down to size) there is an extra/further process that needs to take place for 0.6 wire that often does not get done (there is a cheaper method! that gets used) so making it inferior to 0.8 and above wire. you using
    Are you using a 3meter or 4 meter torch ? as a 4meter torch will give more grief when feeding 0.6 wire.
     
    Mee likes this.
  9. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    3m torch
     
  10. angellonewolf

    angellonewolf Member

    Messages:
    1,150
    Location:
    bristol england
    looking on the fourm most people use the .8 when my .6 runs out will try a .8 and see how i get on if you can buy a small roll and try it ?
     
  11. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    uk Bristol
    Well I think the tip advice is poor. As the tip is your electrical connection for the weld voltage TO the weld wire then any poor connection here would cause you a slight intermittent weld voltage BUT your wire feed will keep going so SOMETIMES the wire gets melted and sometimes it does not (briefly) Maybe enough to cause the wire to back up and birds nest.
     
  12. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    Might as well, no lie I've wasted a good half a roll of wire due to the bird nesting problem there is next to nothing in information given by the manufacturer not even a general guide on setting the welder up
     
  13. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    Now then I bet that's what my problem is I'll get on eBay and order some tips before I try new wire thankyou,any more tips guys all welcome thanks a bunch
     
  14. Gareth0123

    Gareth0123 Y'all hold my beer, while you watch me do this!

    Messages:
    958
    Location:
    Norwich, Norfolk, UK
    Tension is set at the reel spindle. Roller pressure is set on the wire feed assembly.

    Ignore your feed rollers to start with, you need to set the reel tension first. Flick your rollers open cut the wire and pull it out of your liner

    Set the reel tension with nut in the middle of the spindle so the reel stops turning the moment you stop pulling on the wire. Then you can start to worry about roller pressure.

    With the rollers open and using your fingers, push the wire up the liner........... all the way until the fresh wire exits the tip, make sure the torch lead is straightish. This will tell you if you have a worn liner or a damaged tip.

    If all is OK, then you can start adjusting the feed roller pressure. Only put on a little roller pressure at a time; until there is enough roller pressure to pull wire off the reel and to push the wire up the liner............job done!
     
    Mee likes this.
  15. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    I have my roller tension at absolute minimum already and still no slipping of rollers.i will follow your instructions regarding reel tension thankyou
     
  16. mike 109444

    mike 109444 Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    uk Bristol
    One thing to adjust if you can is the IN feed and OUT feed gaps. Looking at pic if you can get the guide pipe as close as possible (virtually torching the roller) for the IN and OUT (the out may not be adjustable)
    This reduces where the wire can "escape" from to cause a birds nest.
    One way to check the tension of the spool over run is fires clear any birds nest. then feed say 62 of wire out of the tip. Now release/unlatch the feed roller so it is applying NO force to the wire. If you now grip the wire sticking out of the torch with pliers you should be able to easily pull the wire through from the spool BUT when you stop pulling the spool should NOT over run. The weight of the spool should stop most of the over run so very little pressure should be applied to the spool clutch/nut.
     
    • in out feed gaps.jpg
    the snooper and Johnseat like this.
  17. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    Brilliant thankyou so much

    And thankyou to all who posted to help a poor newbie out,I will report back and let you guys know how I get on

    Also this forum is brill I've consulted it many times to help me get started.

    For anyone looking for a Oxford apart from poor info given with the machine when being a newbie,The 200 has given me some fantastic beginner welds people on the mini forum were very impressed with them
     
  18. MoreWellie Member

    Messages:
    533
    Location:
    Bedfordshire, UK
    I also have an oxford and (lucky for me) have never had a birds nest problem. I would agree that the feed roller tension can be left at 1 (the minimum) but I can stop the wire with my fingers and the feed roller slips as it should, at least it does with the .8 but cannot remember testing with the .6

    I normally use .8 and 1mm but we currently have a 5kg 0.6 reel in there and still working fine. we always use the tip size to match the wire without any problems

    from your description it sounds like the drag on the reel is your main problem but it would be helpful to post a picture of the next birds nest so we could see exactly what is happening
     
  19. mrfuzzy

    mrfuzzy Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    7,302
    Location:
    Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
    if your looking for help on wire/consumables/ setup, WECS in sheffield might be worth speaking to, been helpful whenever I've phoned.
     
  20. Gas New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    W yorkshire
    Yes agree my roller is on 1 and still no slipping of rollers, I will defo post a picture of my next bird nest hopefully you guys have helped enough to stop it, I think the contact tip is the key fingers crossed,

    What'd you mean by drag on the real ( do you mean centre bolt too tight )
     
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