16a to 32a tripping Help?

  1. something_awful Member

    Messages:
    14
    United Kingdom
    Hi, I recently bought a powcon 300ss arc welder which came with a 16a 5 pin 3 phase plug on it. My workshop only has a 32a socket so I swapped a 32a plug onto the machine.
    It powers up but when trying to strike an arc it trips the breaker on the wall.
    Any ideas how to fix this?
    Do I need some kind of 16a to 32a adaptor? or is it more likely the fault lies with the machine itself.
     
  2. WorkshopChris Forum Supporter

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    3,056
    Location:
    South East Essex
    Hi does the welder power up ok? Is it only tripping once the arc is established.
    Also although the socket in the workshop is a 32a what size and type of fuse/mcb/rcbo is upstream?
     
  3. something_awful Member

    Messages:
    14
    United Kingdom
    It powers up ok, it arcs for a split second then trips the breaker. I'll need to check what type of fuse is used upstream. I have a variety of 3 phase equipment which works fine with the power supply including an Esab mig machine.
     
  4. carbon

    carbon Member

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    616
    Location:
    S. Glos. U.K
    I have a 300SM and don't have any problems running it on a 16amp breaker but I think the breakers I have are c rated
     
  5. carbon

    carbon Member

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    616
    Location:
    S. Glos. U.K
    Was the first start for this machine in a while as mine sometimes trips a 16a breaker when plugged in and powered up. I assume charging the capacitors just overloads the 16a breaker to much
     
    WorkshopChris likes this.
  6. something_awful Member

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    14
    United Kingdom
    I'm assuming it hasn't been used in a while. It powers up ok, doesn't trip anything until the arc is initiated.
     
  7. Luke

    Luke Forum Supporter

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    What type is the breaker on the wall?

    A type C or type D might be required, if the in-rush current is high.
     
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  8. carbon

    carbon Member

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    616
    Location:
    S. Glos. U.K
    From the manual for this the max input current @ 460v is 16.7a and at 380v is 20.8a so in the lower range should work from a 16a socket
     
  9. Luke

    Luke Forum Supporter

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    Location:
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    Based on the above, you're looking at 19 A at 415 V, and that's not going to take account of any inrush current either. The inrush characteristic of the MCB will be type A,B,C or D.
     
  10. WorkshopChris Forum Supporter

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    Location:
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    Where would you use a type A mcb, it something i have never seen, have come across semiconductor rated fuses with a very fast tripping curve?
     
  11. something_awful Member

    Messages:
    14
    United Kingdom
    I'll get some photos of everything today. Thanks for the input so far...
     
  12. Luke

    Luke Forum Supporter

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    To be honest, I've not seen or used a type A, though they do exist. I'm guessing they have no overload capability, or at least, less than a B characteristic.

    There are also Z and K characteristics, but you don't see those very often, either.

    An MCB is always going to have a higher energy let-through than a fuse, due to the mechanical operation. Semiconductor rated fuses are pretty quick. :)
     
    WorkshopChris likes this.
  13. daleyd

    daleyd Member

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    I think I read somewhere that type A don't exist - something to do with confusion between A (amps) and the type - that's why they start at type B. I've certainly never seen one and never even heard of one being used.
     
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  14. WorkshopChris Forum Supporter

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    Location:
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    That would make sense as there is no reference to them in the big yellow book, had a look this afternoon.
     
  15. Luke

    Luke Forum Supporter

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    1,637
    Location:
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    They do exist, though I've never seen or used one.
     
    • MCB type A.PNG
  16. HughF

    HughF Member

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    Location:
    Corfe Castle/Frome
    Probably this to be honest... the input rectifiers and input storage caps will be charged the moment the power is switched on to the machine. The main inverter scr's firing badly could put a lot of load on the input rectification stage which in turn blows the breaker. I would suggest going over to the arcon/powcon section on weldingweb and asking for some diagnostic information.
     
  17. normspanners Member

    Messages:
    8,193
    northwales
    .

    Just a matter of interest, as it had a 5pin plug on it, you havnt wired it across single phase and neutral,ie have you used the neutral? so in fact are only using one power phase 230V instead of two 415v it will poss still work but use a heap more current. especially as the plug/socket might be red yellow blue and the lead all blacks ?
    Not wishing to sound patronising it is just from your terminology you are not totally knowledgeable of the lectrickery it is just blue was a phase and now is the neutral.
     
    carbon likes this.
  18. carbon

    carbon Member

    Messages:
    616
    Location:
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    These are supposed to be pretty robust welders. The only fault I've had is the capacitors on the filter pcb got a little old and started leaking. Even then it didn't trip a breaker just didn't smell to good.
     
  19. something_awful Member

    Messages:
    14
    United Kingdom
    It's a C
     
  20. knighty Member

    Messages:
    805
    Location:
    Sunderland
    no chance you've wired the plug up wrong ?
     
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