Tig, Mig, Flux or Arc

walker7182006 · Jan 15, 2011

Hey whats up guy's :waving:

I'm new to this form and am hoping for some welding advice. I have to make a repair to my vehicle's rear frame that holds the strut mount (pic's included). I know how I'm looking to do the repair it but just am not shore what i should use Tig, Mig, Flux or Arc. I'm not to shore how thick the steel is but its around 1cm to 1.5cm. any input would be greatly appreciated. thanks ahead

shenion · Jan 15, 2011

Welcome to the forums. :hug:

I think you mean 1 to 1.5mm (1.5cm is almost 5/8" thick.)

It looks like 1 to 1.1mm (18 or 20 gauge)

Gas MIG will be easiest. If it is 1mm then gas MIG will be the only way to do it.

1.5mm is about 1/16", flux-core MIG with a 30A setting should do it. Will be messy, hard to see but will work.

Arc is too hot to use on thin metal. it can be done but is a real pain on something odd shaped. I have done some on the bench and it took many tries. Tried it on 1.1mm bodywork in a trailer and still fought blowing holes.

TIG will work but is the most difficult to learn especially positional (anything that is not horizontal/flat.)

If you go with MIG, find one that can do both gas and gasless and goes as low as 30A. Find metal the same size and practice until you can do the same things repeatedly. The tutorials here are real good.

walker7182006 · Jan 15, 2011

Thank you for posting a reply. I'm looking in the direction of both the Mig and Tig. I've found a Mig/flux welder but i dose not come with the components used for the Mig. would you be able to tell me what i would need in order to use the Mig portion of this product. thanks again

http://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...0-amp-230-volt-mig-and-flux-welder-97503.html

shenion · Jan 15, 2011

Ah, Horror Freight

That's Chinese. I have not heard anything good about them, but not much bad. People seem to get along with them. Reviews had several people get dead ones.

You would need to add a gas regulator for gas MIG. Here is the reg.

Last time I was in HF, they had a skid of those on sale for $149.

Do not buy the HF MIG wire, it is crap. Get some from Northern Tool, HomerD or Lowes. They carry Lincoln Electric SupraMIG L-56 or Hobart (both ER70S-6).

walker7182006 · Jan 15, 2011

Thank you for the input Guy's.

After looking around i came to the conclusion those Mig/Tig welders are just a little to pricey for me right know. Not to mention the fact they do not come with everything that is needed in order to use the Mig.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to purchase an arc welder, Yes i know the welds will not look as pretty as a Mig weld but im not entering my car into the barrett jackson auction show case ether

Is there a particular rod that i should use for this application? any additional advice is welcome thanks ahead

shenion · Jan 15, 2011

It is not that arc welds will not look pretty, it is that you will blow holes more than laying a bead. If you take a piece of copper pipe and flatten it out, then attach to a dowel you will have a "spoon" you can hold on t5he back of the weld to help keep from blowing holes.

Otherwise do it as a series of spot welds (1 second each or so).

The best rod is a 1/16" 7014. If you can't find them then the smallest 6013 will work.

walker7182006 · Jan 22, 2011

Hey guy's thanks for the input and advice.

I bought the arc welder and the 6013 rods. But i have a question. Should I but weld it together or can I overlap it (I perfer to over lap)? If I over lap I'm looking to do maby like a 1in to 1 1/2in over lap. would that be ok? I have not received the new part. I decided to order it but hear is a picture. Thanks agine

shenion · Jan 23, 2011

Which rods did you get (brand and size)?

Overlap will be much easier with an arc welder.

This is one area arc is better than MIG. 6013 rods can handle dirty metal (to a small point.) I'd find a weld-thru primer. Will make it less likely to rot out in the overlapped area.

I'd weld both ends of the overlap with a stitch weld. Do short welds like 3/4" and keep alternating areas so there is less chance of warp.

walker7182006 · Jan 23, 2011

the brand is Quick Strike AWS E6013 1/8" diameter welding rod. I do intend on cleaning all surfaces to bar metal prior to any welding. i was thinking about going and getting a mig welder tho. I'm used to being in the construction field where arc is used on trucks frames and heavier metals then the one I'm working on. since the metal is less then 5mm thick i think I'm gonna return the arc welder. i just have to figure out how to power the new mig welder tho since it is a 230 volts, 21 amps, single phase, 60 Hz welder (4 prong) and the house is a 120. if anyone could tell me what i would need to power this product at home off of a 120 or how to wire it to the circuit breaker it would be appreciated. any products that i would need to tap into the circuit breaker would be bought from home depot.

shenion · Jan 23, 2011

1/8" is way too big. You would want 1/16" rods.

220V is no problem, all houses have it. You will have to have an electrician wire a 220V outlet.

Doing it yourself is not bad but you have lots of codes to deal with. I did mine by adding a 50A double breaker, 3/4" conduit to a 4-prong outlet using #6 wire. Mine calls for much more than that (175A breaker) but 50A gives me more than I'll ever need. The breaker box is right in the garage so it was easy to add one below it.

4-prong is odd, I bet the neutral is not used so could be 3-prong. 4-prong is usually 50A. For 30A you could use a dryer plug/outlet but I prefer twist-lock.

Post picts of the panel and where you want to put an outlet (distance). I can see if I can look up wire sizes. I'd use armored cable especially if you are running exposed.

walker7182006 · Jan 23, 2011

I just looked at the out-let from the washer machine and it is a three prong. I also looked to the breaker box there was a 50A for the stove (they wrote stove next to it). there is also a 30A. I take it that 30A is for the washer and dryer cause everything else is 20A. So i just have to figure out if the prongs would mach from the mig to the out-let that was made for the washer and dryer.

shenion · Jan 23, 2011

A dryer outlet will work. Is there one in the garage by chance?

walker7182006 · Jan 23, 2011

ya that's where the washer is @. i think I'm just gonna need an extension cord that reaches from the back of the garage to the front. I'm hoping the outlet from the washer's three prong is the same as the mig welder's three prong.

shenion · Jan 23, 2011

The washer will have a 20A 110V plug

The dryer will have a 220V/30A plug.

The extension will be expensive, don't be surprised to spend $100. The welder will probably not have a plug.

walker7182006 · Jan 23, 2011

yes your 100% right i thought they were both on the same line but there not. hears some pic's. just have to find out if the mig has the same prongs.

its funny i just asked my pops about the outlets he tells me why don't i just pay someone to do it. instead of telling him cause I'm not lazy and like to learn/do things on my own. I just told him why pay some one to do something when i could buy the tool fix what i need and have the tool there just in case i ever need it.

shenion · Jan 23, 2011

It might be easier to wire a second outlet where you need it.

Is the breaker panel in the garage?

Edit: looks like you could make up an extension. All I had seen was 4' cables like you have in the dryer. I see Sears and other have wire-on plugs.

The thing is you will need #6 flexible wire, hard to find. Most wire that size is designed for permanent use.

walker7182006 · Jan 23, 2011

yes it's in the Garage.

shenion · Jan 23, 2011

If there are extra slots in the panel, you can add a breaker and run a wire to an outlet where you need it.

walker7182006 · Jan 23, 2011

that's how i was thinking of doing it. i worked doing water main and sewer mains, not limited to steam and boilers systems. on one of the jobs we had to weld on someing in the boiler. well i help the welder with his portable welder and we taped straight into the box. im really not looking to hard wire it. if i could use the dryer outlet i would do that even if i have to buy an extension cord. ether way i would have to get an extension cord since the washer and the box are both located in the right rear corner of the house

shenion · Jan 23, 2011

The thing is you cant buy dryer extension cords.

The other issue is it is 30A so the cord must be rated at this amps.

You can probably get away with a 20A outlet. Install one just under the breaker panel and the buy a 20A 220V extension cord.

My 130A Clarke used 20A at 110v, that 21A rating for the HF one on 220V seems awfully high, should be around 12A.

Edit: you could buy a 30A generator extension (About $65), cut off the plug and wire on a dryer plug. Then out the same plug on the welder (or just run it into the welder.)

If that orange wire feeds the black box then it does not meet electrical codes. If exposed, it must be conduit or armored cable.

Tig, Mig, Flux or Arc

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