welding codes question

Originally Posted by 3Rs I came across this in UK welder. Its a longer more detailed answered in a way which would have kept me up a week trying to type. ASME IX (American Society of Welding Engineers Boiler and Pressure Vessel code) is an American Code mostly used for pipe work on oil related work in the UK. AWS D1.1 also an American code is used for Structural work EN 287 is a European Code and covers both structural and pipe work. ASME IX is the most misunderstood welding qualification used. ASME IX is a code designed to enable accredited fabrication companies to qualify their own procedures and welders without the need for third party Independent Inspection bodies i.e. Lloyds,DNV Because of this, according to ASME IX you can’t get an ASME IX Cert from an independent test centre unless the company who you are going to work for has a welding inspector present during the test. Quoted from ASME IX 2004 “QW-300.2 (a) The basic premises of responsibility in regard to welding are contained within QW-103 and Qw-301.2. These paragraphs require that each manufacturer or contractor (an assembler or an installer is to be included within this premise) shall be responsible for conducting tests to qualify the performance of welders and welding operators in accordance with qualified Welding Procedure Specifications, which his organisation employs in the construction of weldments built with the Code. The purpose of this requirement is to ensure that the manufacturer or contractor has determined that his welders and welding operators using his procedures are capable of developing the minimum requirements specified for an acceptable weldment. This responsibility cannot be delegated to another organisation. (b) The welders or welding operators used to produce such weldments shall be tested under full supervision and control of the manufacturer, contractor, assembler, or installer during the production of these test weldments. It is not permissible for the manufacturer, contractor, assembler, or installer to have the welding performed by another organisation.” The anomaly is that a test centre can qualify you using ASME IX as a guide and have it stamped by an independent Inspection authority, this only proves that you can weld to the ASME IX code it does not qualify for the job you are going to do. To qualify for the job you must test for the company or your first production welds must be examined by radiography then you are qualified to ASME IX. The main advantage of this code is that if you are an accredited fabrication company is they can have a pool of proven welders and not have the expense of outside inspection and continual testing every time you rehire or wish to qualify on different materials, they just qualify on the job also you can conduct your own welding procedures. BSEN 287 The basic difference is that EN 287 when witnessed by a recognised inspection authority e.g. Lloyds, DNV then you can work for any employer using that code and they can hire you without further testing. EN 287 can be used on piping and structural work. Welding Positions The positions Qualified are virtually the same just the different identification numbers i.e. 6G and HL045 (JL045) Material EN 287 uses groups 1-11 ASME uses P numbers 1-11 these are similar. There are other numbers and groups but these are the most common Diameters EN 287 Pipe Diameter < 25mm = D to 2 D Pipe Diameter > 25mm = 0.5D (25mm Min) and above ASME Pipe Diameter <25mm = Size welded and above Pipe Diameter 25mm-73mm = 25mm and above Pipe Diameter >73 = 73 and above Thickness EN 287 t < 3mm, = t to 3mm t >= 3mm, = 3mm and above ASME Thickness refers to the thickness of weld not the material and is too confusing for me to explain any help is welcome Renewal of Qualification ASME You need to weld according to the code within 6 months. According to the code the cert not transferable to another employer unless he was present at original test. EN 287 Valid for 2years, providing that the welders supervisor can confirm that every six month period the welder has been working within his range of qualification. After 2 years it may be prolonged for periods of 2 years by examining body , on the basis of satisfactory evidence from volumetric testing on at least two items of work. Qualification can be transferred provided it is stamped accordingly.

thanks for that great stuff cheers ocean

I see what your saying,
but your still going to have to go threw a weld test.

yeah of course, and i know, you cant fool nobody in the welding game, you get found out as soon as you put down your first weld.
but for some of these young people starting out it hard even to get an interview, its all through employment agencies who ask about being a coded welder but don't know the first thing about a coded welder.
sorry for hijacking ocean, glad you got some useful info, as i said before, I'm fascinated by the coding thing, i have to demystify for myself. the issue has been popping up more and more out here in the real world, cheers again 3R.

Sorry, moving further off topic but in the interest of clarity EN287 part 2 is/was for aluminium alloys, been replaced anyway.
Gives me a headache

have been on to TWI about codes, they test you for about 250 quid (or something like that) for some codes. but what happens if you fail, is it money down the drain, or do they give you as long as you need (within reason) to lay down the required weld and then you got your code? i should ring them maybe to clarify. if i put them through my business its probably tax deductible, somebody give me an idea of a good general purpose 'oh this guy can weld alright' type of code to go for!!

Hi ,

this is whats on my certificate and it's 19-20 years ago!

welding to bs4872

module 1 oxy flame cutting
module 2 m.m.arc welding m/steel. plate in the flat, horizontal, vertical, and
overhead positions.
moduel 3 m.m arc welding of medium carbon steel pipe butts, rotated -
2g-5g-6g positions to bs 4872
module 4 oxy-acetylene welding and brazing to bs 1295

moduel 5 semi automatic m.i.g welding in all positions using dip and
spray transfer in mild steel plate
module 6 tungsten inert gas welding. tig to bs.4872 standard joints
in horizontal, vertical, positions in m/steel stainless steel and aluminium.

and there you have it! i remember doing fixed 6g welds with low hydrogen rods for the root , fill and then cap, but at the end of the day it's the test on the day that gets you the job!

"As regards to working with structure i was coded in the past*Asme ix*3f/pf,pg which was horizontal downward*MMA on structural steel,*also i am more than capable doing likewise with MIG".
*
say if you read something as above on a cover letter for example, would you think its for real or a spoof.

does any body know of a good place to get welding codes done in lincolnshire, so far the closest i've found is coventry welding .
many thanks. Stewart

Stewart look at Babcocks at Tipton

Originally Posted by dannyweld have been on to TWI about codes, they test you for about 250 quid (or something like that) for some codes. but what happens if you fail, is it money down the drain, or do they give you as long as you need (within reason) to lay down the required weld and then you got your code? i should ring them maybe to clarify. if i put them through my business its probably tax deductible, somebody give me an idea of a good general purpose 'oh this guy can weld alright' type of code to go for!!

Danny
I do a lot of welder approval testing and in order to comply with the standard you officialy only get three goes at it, one as a practice piece to set up parameters etc and then two goes at the actual test, if you're not happy with your first go you can bin it and have another go but this is the one you have to submit, £250 for a BS 4872 or En 287 test on steel plate(butt or fillet) is expensive, if you want to get coded would suggest shopping around, can normally get them done for around £100 unless you need them witnessing by an insurance company surveyor