Bullyterrier
So Mote It Be
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Does anyone use the argon mix gas savers? Do they work? are they worth getting? I usually weld in short bursts, and I read they can save up to 40% gas when tacking etc.
- Thread starter Bullyterrier
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kev234
Member
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Hello Bullyterrier, I personally don't have a gas saver but being new to this welding lark I went to visit a friend who has his own fabrication shop for some tips, advice and to borrow offcuts for practice and he uses a gas saver and reckons it saves about a third of a bottle. He also pointed out that he was really dubious at first but having had it over 5 years it has more than paid for itself.
Will be interesting to see what the more experienced hands have to say.
Regards
Kev
Will be interesting to see what the more experienced hands have to say.
Regards
Kev
irondarren
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yep gas savers are worth getting, it controls the pressure of the gas better. To often certainly with cheap regulators, the pressure can build. when you pull the trigger you get a high pressure burst, leave it for a while and the pressure builds again. The gas savers stop this, but then so does a descent two stage reuglator
I seem to remember asking about these a while back. There must be 20 meters of gas line on my welder and I'm sure I'm wasting gas every I stop and restart which, as you say, is a lot when you're doing a load of tacks. I've still not got one because a) I remain sceptical (though I have to say the principal seems sound) and b) I haven't got round to it. Having said that I've seen them on t'internet for about £40 and at that price it has to be worth a punt. I've also been told the AP Integra cylinders have them built in but, again, I've not got round to finding out. I'd be very interested to hear your results if you do get one.
Bullyterrier
So Mote It Be
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I was searching earlier and found them on rapidwelding for 25 smackers. Might be worth trying one then.
irondarren
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Are a worthwhile bit of kit, as i said single stage regulators aren't really that clever. because they use a single chamber to reduce pressure. If we all werent so tight the answer would have been to order a murex multi-stage gauge from weldequip at around £90 a pop (weldequip could confirm or deny the price) Multi-stage guages used multiple chambers to reduce the pressure, meaning the first chamber reduces the pressure to something like 15 bar and the next chamber reduces the pressure lower etc. Means you get a more accurate delivery of gas at a more constant pressure. But because we are all so busy penny pinching it means we wont pay the money for a good gauge, rather pay £25 for a guage that wastes gas. So in the end it costs us more in the long run because of excessive gas use. The argon misers (thats an old brand name) create a second chamber which regulates gas flow better. Hence saving money on gas.
In truth it possibly really wont make that much different to the majority of users here as there gas consumption isnt that high, but for the likes of me, snowy, welder paul and the others that use far to much gas, they are a worthwhile investment certainly for £40
In truth it possibly really wont make that much different to the majority of users here as there gas consumption isnt that high, but for the likes of me, snowy, welder paul and the others that use far to much gas, they are a worthwhile investment certainly for £40
It doesnt work that way, the dual stage regulator only keeps the second stage at a constant pressure, which is about 2000KPA set pressure, it only helps in keeping that pressure constant as the cylinder empties, a single stage regulator will work just as well if it is a quality regulator, all regulators have 3 different pressures which are Dynamic Pressure, which is the actual flowing gas pressure, Set Pressure which is the pressure that it has been set at without flow and Lock Up Pressure which is the pressure that the outlet gauge indicates after a period of time, IE at Dynamic it may read 100Kpa, at Set 120Kpa at Lock Up 140 Kpa or more. So a good regulator will have a low difference between Dynamic and Lock Up pressures. It is always best to release all pressure from system when finished welding AND back off adjusting knob, as the next time you use it the Set pressure may be different as it has to be readjusted as Cylinder contents decreases
Cheers
Shox Dr
Chief Engineer to Carlos Fandango
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I had noticed the work setup pressure does clime, if I don't use it for a bit. Not to mention the amount of gas I use. They use cheap regs that are always sticking, I use BOC Saffire dual stage fitted with Harris Flow meter in my own workshop, and have never noticed a rise.
I use about a bottle about 8-10 days at work, and 1 every 2-3months in my workshop, for TIG, Mig lasts me ages. I just put the amount used at work down to constant use and higher flow rate, as I adjust the flow rate at Home, and leave it set at work.
For those that are interested there are Harris Gas Savers on Ebay at the moment for 20quids inc postage.
item number 190287319664
There was 9 for sale, there might only be 8 now
I use about a bottle about 8-10 days at work, and 1 every 2-3months in my workshop, for TIG, Mig lasts me ages. I just put the amount used at work down to constant use and higher flow rate, as I adjust the flow rate at Home, and leave it set at work.
For those that are interested there are Harris Gas Savers on Ebay at the moment for 20quids inc postage.
item number 190287319664
There was 9 for sale, there might only be 8 now
irondarren
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if you are on a multi stage reg, then your fine. I really doubt a gas saver would do anything to help you. flow meters are a great thing to have as well
My understanding has always been that a regulator (whether single or dual stage) only 'regulates' the pressure while the gas is flowing i.e while welding. When you stop welding the pressure in the pipes increases so that when you start welding again a surge of pressure is released. I'm happy to be corrected though!
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thats the way I understood it, as far as I know duel stages simply offer a smother flow, little else, as there knocking the high pressure down in 2 stages, every reg iv had, either on cutting or inerts has surged when dead ended.........and I have owned a good few
duel and singles... surely it wouldn't matter what the regs doing because the surge is caused by the gas compressing in the lines not at the regA gas saver acts as a secondary regulator, irrespective of if you are using a single or multi-stage regulator; basically just smooths out the initial surge in gas when you first press the trigger. Don't ask me how they work exactly... if I knew that I'd have thought of the idea but they claim gas savings of up to 60%; you'd have to be doing a lot of tack welding to get those kind of savings I should think.
weldequip
but they claim gas savings of up to 60%; you'd have to be doing a lot of tack welding to get those kind of savings I should think.weldequip
I've seen claims from 40-60% but, like you say Weldequip, those are probably to be taken with a pinch of salt. Having said that at twenty squids if it only saved 25% it'd probably be worth it. The fact that it's a Harris one makes me fractionally more confident. I'll let you know what I make of it.....!
Having said that at twenty squids if it only saved 25% it'd probably be worth it. The fact that it's a Harris one makes me fractionally more confident. I'll let you know what I make of it.....!
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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It would probably save a bit from any on-off style of welding (tacking, plug welds etc). Regulators control flow but don't stop the whole gas line filling up to bottle pressure if you leave them for a few seconds.
Now if someone came up with a device to save on bottle rental... that would be the thing.
Now if someone came up with a device to save on bottle rental... that would be the thing.
Shox Dr
Chief Engineer to Carlos Fandango
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arrrrr, now I have, but Im not telling how, otherwise I'll not get my bottle exchanged next time
RapidResponse
Forum Supporter
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They work very well if you are doing a lot of short welds.
Buy one and stick a balloon over the shroud and give try about a dozen 2 second burst on the torch trigger. Compare this to a balloon without a gas saver and you will kick yourself for not having one sooner.
Aga and subsequently elga produced them built into the reg. But most people only see the £70.00 saving when selecting a new single stage regulator.
check this out,,,, http://www.elgagasequipment.se/optimator/eng/index.html
Buy one and stick a balloon over the shroud and give try about a dozen 2 second burst on the torch trigger. Compare this to a balloon without a gas saver and you will kick yourself for not having one sooner.
Aga and subsequently elga produced them built into the reg. But most people only see the £70.00 saving when selecting a new single stage regulator.
check this out,,,, http://www.elgagasequipment.se/optimator/eng/index.html
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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- 9,809
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Good link there. Aimed at more industrial folk so I selected the 1000 euro a year gas usage and saved more than I spend on gas.
Regulators that prevent the initial surge must measure the pressure in the gas line - more than a few bar and supplies of extra gas are cut. Is there a common name for those regulators (other than looking at the brands)?
Regulators that prevent the initial surge must measure the pressure in the gas line - more than a few bar and supplies of extra gas are cut. Is there a common name for those regulators (other than looking at the brands)?
irondarren
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i got two boxed ones some where that i acquired, think they have the brand name gas arc on them, nice colour orange they are. think they are around £45 a shot. weldequip probaly knows the ones im talking about
